We Got Mail

Things in Common with WWCG

I just received the newest Proclamation! magazine in my email. I’m looking forward to reading it. My husband and I are former Worldwide Church of God members, so we have some things in common with former Seventh-day Adventist members. 

 As you know, we didn’t keep Christmas. They read Jeremiah 10 as the proof why we should not keep Christmas, that it’s pagan. I recall they never read the verse where it actually describes cutting the tree, and making it look like a big stick man; that was their idol who they then worshipped. I never read that far, I just believed what they taught. We kept God’s Feast Days, but not Christmas or Easter.

 I had an encounter with God the fall of that year (1973) not long before my mother asked me to take her to services at WWCG, (she didn’t drive). I was 24 and had a born again experience with God! It was amazing, I felt so clean. He gave me the gift of repentance. I wasn’t going to WWCG because I had a desire to go; I was just helping my mom—and ended up being there 24 years before I left after their doctrinal changes and the church split.

 Fast forward, I started keeping Christmas again because we lost going to the Feast of Tabernacles, and I loved that we were together as a family. That all changed. My husband was never that crazy about Christmas because he said it wasn’t a good experience for him when he grew up. I don’t know why, but for him to not celebrate Christmas now is no big deal. But he helps and goes along with it. In my home of origin, Christmas was fun! I love having the family over (we have six grown adults, one special-needs son whom we still care for) and give gifts to our ten grandchildren.

 My husband has been reading a lot of Arthur Bailey’s [Hebrew Roots] commentaries and watching videos. Arthur has quite a history; he pastored in a number of different Christian denominations and now is a Messianic Hebrew Roots pastor. He has quite a testimony. I’ve watched his videos and have been reading his Galatians commentary and his book on Sabbath Not Sunday? He shows Scripture and historical documents that the Sabbath was changed by men, not by God. I read his book, and I can’t refute it. It looks like we are to keep the Sabbath day holy as a time of  worshiping, fellowshipping with other believers ,and resting. We did when we were in WWCG, and it was a joy. Arthur says Sunday is the Day of the Sun and people are  worshiping a pagan god on Sunday. He provides the historical evidence. The Catholic church actually comes right out and expresses that they changed it from God’s Sabbath to Sunday. Constantine also declared Sunday a “rest day” and made it illegal for anyone to work on that day; so believers were persecuted for keeping Sabbath. We also watched his Christmas is pagan video. There are many other teachers out there who also believe it’s pagan.

 I don’t feel that I’m doing the same pagan things that the pagans did. But how does God see it? My husband reminds me of the Scripture “not to follow the customs of the pagans”. He doesn’t forbid me from giving gifts; he goes to the bank and gets cash that we give to our kids. My husband is a good guy, I know his heart is to obey God, and so is mine. But there can be only one Truth. 

 I’m willing to look at both sides. I know He wasn’t born December 25^th, it was more likely the Feast of Tabernacles…

 I didn’t put up any decorations this year, but I did shop online and bought gifts for grandkids.…I like the lights of the tree; it’s pretty, and I believe Jesus was conceived during Hannukah, so The Light did dwell with us. This is a miracle, and I think that’s what people are celebrating on the 25, not Tammuz’s birthday or the Sun God Nimrod. Biblically there is nothing that tells us to celebrate His birthday, is true, but, nothing to tell us not to celebrate July 4, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, or Memorial Day.

 I’m one of those who gets “tossed to and fro”. Yes, there is a lot of paganism in this world…There was legalism in the WWCG, some people wouldn’t raise a glass and toast because pagans did it. I keep talking to Father about all this. I ask Him, “Do you really look at people keeping Christmas as pagan?”Are you upset by it?” I don’t want to do anything God is against. I have to come to my own conviction either way. I can’t jump onto the “pagan Christmas” bandwagon just because people say so; I did that when I first came to WWCG.

 Also, as we’ve been reading and studying Arthur Bailey’s commentaries, he backs up with Scripture saying we should be keeping the Sabbath, that we can’t just keep the nine and forget the tenth commandment. It’s pointed out that there was no New Testament when Jesus and Paul walked on the earth, and everything they taught was from the Torah, so we are still commanded to keep Torah, but we are to walk in the Spirit, to be led by the Holy Spirit.

Bailey states that keeping the Sabbath is a salvation issue. Scriptures say “If you love me you’ll keep my commandments”; “Many are called, but few are chosen”, “MANY will say ‘Lord, Lord, we cast out demons and healed the sick,” and He will say, “Depart from me, I never knew you”.  He reads references to the Way being narrow because they don’t keep His commandments…In the commentary I’ve been studying, Arthur shows Scripture where Paul expresses that He keeps the Law of YaHoVah, not the law of the Pharisees, which he used to do before his conversion. Jesus also taught on the Torah. It was pointed out that the Torah is not the law of Moses; it’s the Law of YaHoVah, our Father God.

 I’m a firstborn, and it was drilled into me to follow rules and obey. I did to the degree that I was manipulated and controlled. I hate to make mistakes, and want to do things right. That’s why I get tossed around. I know I’m not perfect and am grateful that God intervened and saved me when I was 24. He answered my prayer for a husband ,and He gave me a wonderful man. We’ll be married 49 years next year.

—VIA EMAIL

Response: Hebrew Roots does not deal with the New Testament’s teachings about the temporary nature of the Mosaic covenant and the eternal, unconditional nature of the new covenant. They also do not deal with Galatians, Colossians, Romans, Ephesians or Hebrews. The epistles explain in detail what happened to the law when Jesus came and fulfilled it.

Galatians especially is a great place to start because in it Paul details that the law was temporary and ended when the Seed came (Gal. 3:17–21). The requirements of the Law simply are not ours to keep. Furthermore, Hebrews 7 explains that where there is a change of the priesthood, there must be, of necessity, a change of the law. Jesus is a priest of a different order: Melchizedek, and the law of Christ is based on His blood, not on the law of Sinai.

While there are similar moral requirements in the two laws, the similarity is not because the Ten Commandments are carried forward but because the Law Giver is the same Person in both cases. For example, the British laws and the United States laws have similar prohibitions against crimes like murder, stealing, and so forth, but they are not the same laws. An American will not be judged and sentenced according to British law but according to the United States laws. In the same way, a person who has trusted Jesus and His finished work will not be judged by the law but by Christ Himself. If our sins are on Him, they are not on us. Adventists try to argue that Galatians isn’t talking about the Ten Commandments, but those are the heart of the Mosaic Law. We can’t carry them over!

Here is an article that should be helpful: The Unity of the Law: What Was Nailed to the Cross?

Here is one about the Hebrew Roots movement: 

In short, days and times are not sacred in the new covenant. Only God is holy, and when we are born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, Peter calls us a “holy priesthood” (1 Peter 2:5). Christmas is a day when we honor our Lord, God the Son, taking a human body and entering our domain of darkness (Col 1:13) to bring life to us! It is an anniversary of one of the most remarkable miracles in all of history! It is not pagan to celebrate the life which God creates and gives us. 

How Do You Explain the Trinity?

I have a question to ask you about the Godhead and would like to know how would you explain it as opposed to am Adventist or a Catholic? And how would you explain the Holy Spirit?

Thanks once again for your feedback which is greatly appreciated.

—VIA EMAIL

Response: Adventists say that the “Trinity” or “Godhead” consists of three separate beings, or three persons who share purpose and will. They deny that they share substance. Furthermore, their official site compares the Trinity to a “winning team” (https://www.adventist.org/trinity/?searchsite=www.adventist.org&ref=on-site-search&searchterm=%22winning+team%22) This idea completely reveals their tritheistic understanding of the Trinity.

Catholics historically had an orthodox definition of the Trinity, but they have included in their beliefs the intercessory role of Mary with Jesus. That idea is simply not in Scripture, and on a practical level (if not officially doctrinal) elevates her to a position of deity. They will not say she is God, but they give her the function of God. Yet 1 Timothy 2:5 says there is only ONE intercessor/mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus. Mary cannot be an intercessor between humans and the Lord Jesus. 

We say that God is One—one Being expressed in three persons, and each of those persons is fully, 100% God. In other words, they share “substance”—or attributes. Adventists say that Jesus gave up His omnipresence by taking a body, so the Holy Spirit now has to be omnipresent for him. But this is contradicted in the Bible. Jesus said He would be with His disciples and His people until the end of the age (Matthew 28). If He is not omnipresent, then He is not God.

Adventists historically said that Jesus had a beginning in the distant past, that He was either created or somehow came into existence before the creation of the world. Yet this very idea would mean He was not eternal as the Father is eternal, and that fact alone would disqualify Hm from being God. 

All three person have all the attributes of God equally. It is a mystery we cannot explain but which Scripture reveals about our triune God. 

Just Trust Jesus

A good presentation, as always! [See Former Adventist Podcast #238: “Will You Get the Mark of the Beast?”.] Although I never experienced the Sunday law re-enactments, I totally believe the stories as they are congruent with other Adventist behaviors. Nonetheless I would love to get videos or photos for sharing with some loved ones. I particularly loved however the part of this video about just trusting Jesus around 40:42. Ellen did make it difficult. Because of horrific circumstances in my community this last year or so, for me I just had to know “all the answers” so to speak, in the midst of grief and anger.   Looking back now, the answer was so simple: trust even our local tragedy to the hands of Jesus. It’s so simple, really, but Ellen and the cult she created continue to take any peace away from so many.Thank you for this mission!

—VIA YOUTUBE

Response: I am so sorry for the pain you have experienced. Jesus really makes everything different! He redeems what we entrust to Him. †

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Colleen Tinker

Colleen Tinker, the editor of Proclamation! magazine, and her husband Richard left Adventism in 1998 with their two sons, Roy and Nathanael, who were in grades six and ten. They have co-led the Former Adventist Fellowship since 1999. Colleen, a graduate of Walla Walla University, is a former high school English teacher and also the former managing editor of Adventist Today magazine. Colleen became the stepmother of Roy and Nathanael in 1989, and in 2008 she adopted them. Romans 8:15-17 has assumed new depth and significance for her and Richard since she and her sons chose to claim each other legally and permanently. She and Richard share an office and a commitment to sharing the gospel of the true Jesus with all of those seeking a way out of the bondage of the false gospel of Adventism.

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