I Need Some Trinity Proofs!
My question—or rather, my concern—centers on the Trinity. I’ve listened to your podcast in which Colleen and Nikki talk about the Trinity, and I believe in the Trinity as the Godhead who all have the same substance and shared characteristics. I don’t believe Jesus was created by God, nor is He Michael the archangel.
Recently, a relative called and proceeded to talk about religion.
This family member was central in my original questioning of Adventist beliefs, and this person’s teachings, along with the input of my former Adventist cousin and FAF, guided me out of the Adventist cult. We eventually parted ways, however, when this relative started referring to spiritual matters which made me uncomfortable.
During this recent phone call, this family member asked if I believed in the Trinity. I said yes, and I also said I listened to FAF podcasts. (This person is familiar with FAF.) The next announcement was that my belief in the Trinity would now be disproved.
I didn’t want to be disrespectful, so I spent the next hour listening to arguments using Bible texts quoted out of context to label the doctrine of the Trinity as non-biblical. These are the texts: 1 Corinthians 11:3, John 14:28, John 13:16, and I Corinthians 15:24-27.
At the end of the hour I was asked, “Do you have any questions?”
I said no and emphasized that I hadn’t changed my belief and thanked this relative for sharing.
I’ve learned that context is everything, that the words of Scripture mean what the words mean, and grammar is important. I felt like this person was pulling verses out of context to try and prove a point.
I’m confused because this relative has been out of Adventism for some time, and I don’t know why there was such an effort to confuse me.
But this non-contextual arguing is what Adventists do. My Adventist friend, for example, likes to throw out verses to prove her point about the Sabbath. I’m never prepared to respond, and fail in trying to support my point.
My question is this: Do you have any key texts I can read to prove the Trinity? I just want to be prepared for the next “ambush”.
—VIA EMAIL
Response: First, I don’t know what spiritual direction your relative has gone, but it sounds as if, former Adventism notwithstanding, this person is not a Christian.
First, taking the texts you mentioned out of context does not prove that the Trinity does not exist. There are aspects to the relationship between Jesus the Son of Man and the Father that we do not fully understand. There are also aspects to the eternal “begetting” of the Son that we cannot explain because we are not privy to the eternal mysteries of God Himself. Yet we know that the Lord Jesus is fully God, with all of the aspects of deity that the Father and the Spirit have. For example, Colossians 1:19 and 2:9 tell us:
For it was the [Father’s] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him (Col. 1:19).
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form (Col. 2:9).
In other words, every bit of the attributes of God are in Jesus and were in Him even when He was on earth in a mortal body: omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, eternality—you name it, all the attributes of God dwelt in Jesus in bodily form—and they are eternally His essence.
As our pastor Gary Inrig says, Revelation reveals the highest Christology of any book in the Bible. Jesus reveals Himself as God when He appears to John and when He speaks to the churches. For example:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” (Rev. 1:8).
Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost” (Rev. 21:6).
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end” (Rev. 22:13).
“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this” (Rev. 3:14).
Jesus here assumes the titles that God uses to identify Himself in the Old Testament. Jesus uses the same titles for Himself. Here is what God said to Isaiah:
“Who has performed and accomplished [it,] Calling forth the generations from the beginning? ’I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He’” (Isa. 41:4).
“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ’I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me” (Isa. 44:6).
So, Jesus takes the name of God onto Himself. He also used the personal name of God, Yahweh, or I Am, when he spoke to the Jews:
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am” (Jhn. 8:58).
The fact that He took the name of God on Himself is why they wanted to kill him!
These are just a few of the passages where the Lord Jesus Himself (that is God the Son!) takes onto Himself the names of God.
That being said, I personally wouldn’t listen to someone expound on his reasons for trying to use the word of God to PROVE that Jesus isn’t fully God! That is blasphemous. The unbelief and disrespect for God’s word is blatant, and to listen to that is to encourage and strengthen his arguments, cementing him even more deeply in his sin. Your ear appears to “approve” of his arguing against what you know to be true! I believe this sort of situation is the sort which Jesus addressed when he said not to give your pearls to swine, and to shake the dust from your feet when people do not receive your gospel message.
We do not “owe” politeness (to the full extent of an hour’s monologue!) to arguments blaspheming the Lord Jesus. You can be polite in your refusal to listen—but listening implies some level of affirmation of the other’s point of view. I always find it so interesting that people who barrage us with these proof-texted arguments without even KNOWING the context or believing the Bible have no trouble AT ALL holding us hostage to their words and emotions and shaming. We are trained to not make waves, to be polite and to keep them from being angry—but they have no respect at all for our time or OUR beliefs. Further, they have no respect at all for our belief in the infallible, inerrancy of God’s word.
We know what we believe; you do not have to listen to this person—or anyone—argue for heresy. It encourages their entrenchment in the doctrines of demons they embrace, and it doesn’t make them willing to listen to us! They only want to argue. It’s actually quite diabolical, and we have to remember Eve: we should never discuss God’s word with a serpent. Our ONLY responsibility is to believe God and live by His word. It is not our job to convince evil that God is right!
Just remember that you are not disrespecting your friend to refuse to listen to anti-God arguments. You are, rather, drawing respectful but firm boundaries around what you know to be the truth. These boundaries are more loving to this person than listening to him deepen his entrenchment in heresy.
We worship a God who is so much bigger, so much more sovereign and powerful—so much more just and merciful than we had any idea! He will give you the clarity and strength to honor Him and to refuse to let your friend blaspheme Him in your presence.
The Best Summary of Adventist Errors
Hello there! Just one question for now. What book would you say contains the best summary of the errors in official Adventist belief in contrast to the simple gospel? It’s just nice to have it all in one book.…Gospel Transformation by Dale Ratzlaff isn’t going into Adventist beliefs, is it?
—VIA EMAIL
Response: Dale’s two books, Sabbath In Christ and The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists, are the two most comprehensive books that I know addressing the heart of Adventism’s false gospel. Sabbath in Christ deals with the covenants and explores all the Adventist Sabbath arguments. The Cultic Doctrine reveals the founders’ shenanigans in forming the investigative judgment doctrine and reveals the shifting explanations before settling, finally, on the current investigative judgment when it became apparent that Jesus was not returning. You can purchase these at SabbathInChrist.com.
There are other doctrines that are “off”; in fact, every single doctrine is deceptive because the underlying Adventist worldview is unbiblical. I don’t know of a single book that encapsulates the worldview problem and its twisting of reality, but here is an article that helps: What Is Seventh-day Adventism? This article is heavily cited and reviews the essential skews that shape Adventist “reality”.
Also, our podcast series on the Fundamental Beliefs addresses each doctrine and exposes the deception in the words and reveals the reality that counters the doctrines: https://blog.lifeassuranceministries.org/2021/10/04/inspecting-adventisms-fundamental-beliefs/
In fact, I highly recommend the podcasts. They address the subtleties of the Adventist worldview as we talk through various doctrinal subjects and books of the Bible. Many people say the podcasts have greatly helped them to get at the root of their Adventism, revealing deep understandings that they’ve always had which they had no idea were the consequence of Adventism.
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