Kelsie and Cheryl join Colleen and Nikki answering the question, “Why do we do this?” Attendees share their experiences attending the recent Former Adventist Fellowship Conference in California. Podcast was published February 26, 2020. Transcription by Gwen Billington.
Nikki: Hi, and welcome to Former Adventist podcast. I’m Nikki Stevenson.
Colleen: And I’m Colleen Tinker.
Nikki: And today we’re recording just a day after the Former Adventist Fellowship Conference. It was a wonderful weekend, and we have two guests joining us. We have Cheryl Granger, a board member of Life Assurance Ministries and a writer for Proclamation! magazine, and Kelsie Petersen, writer and blogger for Proclamation! magazine. Thank you guys for being with us.
Kelsie: Thank you for having us.
Cheryl: Yes.
Nikki: So we want to start off by just asking you guys – you know, we’ve had an opportunity early in this podcast to talk about why we do what we do, and you both are very involved in the ministry. Why do you do what you do?
Colleen: Cheryl, do you want to go first?
Cheryl: Like Myra said in her YouTube testimony –
Colleen: Which we played over the weekend.
Cheryl: Yes, which you played. – we love our Adventist family and friends.
Colleen: True.
Cheryl: It breaks my heart to know they’re heading into eternity with a false gospel and a false Jesus.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: In a nutshell, that’s why.
Nikki: It’s well said.
Colleen: Yes. Kelsie? What about you? Why do you do this?
Kelsie: I think part of it for me is – well, I hear over and over again at the conferences and interacting with former Adventists on Facebook, it’s the sense of “I’m different” or “There’s something wrong with me,” and I think it’s important – we’ve had many discussions this weekend about normalizing and about understanding that this isn’t just you, you’re not crazy.
Colleen: Right.
Kelsie: This is something that is real – it’s something real that is false.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: But you are not crazy for questioning, and the questions that you have are normal and right and good to ask and that there are answers. I mean, on my blogs I guess I probably deal more with the experiential side of processing out of Adventism, but there are so many good articles on the blog and in the magazine that break down the theology and the covenants and all of these things, and I think – I mean, both sides are just so important. People just need to know that they’re not alone.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: And I think that’s important.
Colleen: Oh, I remember that alone feeling when we first came out. It felt totally isolated.
Kelsie: And that’s something that we deal with in the conferences over and over again is people feeling alone and how they comment over and over again how good it is to be together and to be with people who get you, who understand. They almost know your thoughts without you having to share them.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Yeah.
Cheryl: I had no idea there was a ministry like this because I was in limbo. I knew Ellen was false. I knew certain doctrines were false. So I wouldn’t go to an Adventist church, but I wouldn’t go to a Sunday church either because I didn’t want to lose my salvation and get the mark of the beast.
Colleen: Cheryl, when did you figure out that Ellen was false, and how long was that before you understood that you could go to a Sunday church?
Cheryl: Long process. I went to PUC for two years, and when Desmond Ford was invited there to talk and he said the Investigative Judgment was not biblical, it sent shock waves through the church. So I sat down and read the entire book of Hebrews. Well, what do you know?
[General laughter.]
Cheryl: That book proves the Investigative Judgment and so many other Adventist doctrines are false.
Colleen: So you were in college when that happened.
Cheryl: No, I was actually out of college.
Colleen: Oh, okay, got it.
Cheryl: I was married, a young mother –
Colleen: Got it.
Cheryl: – but still everybody heard about it.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: When did you actually stop attending the Adventist church?
Cheryl: When I lived up north, I was still attending.
Colleen: Is that Northern California?
Cheryl: Northern California. All of this was going on. There were Adventist pastors that wouldn’t preach the Investigative Judgment that were being kicked out of churches, like Mark Martin.
Colleen: Um-hmm. I remember that time.
Cheryl: And so I knew, and the more I studied, I’m like, “I can’t stay here,” and we quit going to that Northern California church.
Colleen: Interesting.
Cheryl: But we still studied our Bible with friends on Sabbath.
Nikki: Okay. It’s been since then.
Cheryl: I didn’t know the wrongness, the utter wrongness at that time.
Nikki: That takes time, huh?
Colleen: It does. It can take years, as it did for you.
Cheryl: We had a friend that was also a member of that church. I was cradle roll leader, and he told us what the biblical gospel was, and I had never heard it –
Colleen: Interesting.
Cheryl: – in 1 Corinthians 15. We witnessed to people in the church that we knew, and at one point the pastor came to us in the foyer – it was at an Adventist church – and said, “If you guys don’t stop talking about this, we’re going to get our lawyer on you.”
Nikki: [Gasps.]
Colleen: Oh, my.
Kelsie: Wow.
Cheryl: That’s absolutely true. I’d say his name, but I’m not going to say.
[General laughter.]
Nikki: So when did you find Life Assurance Ministries?
Cheryl: We eventually moved back to Southern California, and I eventually ended up in Yucaipa –
Colleen: Uh-huh.
Cheryl: – not knowing this ministry was headquartered here, you know.
Colleen: [Laughter.]
Cheryl: And I hadn’t been going anywhere for a long time. I told God one day, “I’m so lonely for Christian fellowship,” and it wasn’t long after that that online I found this magazine for people like me.
Colleen: Proclamation!; right?
Cheryl: Yep, Proclamation! And it was free, so I wrote and said please send it, and I got back a handwritten note from some lady I didn’t know. [Laughter.]
[General laughter.]
Cheryl: That was kind of shocking, that she would handwrite a note to me, and invited us to Bible study, and it took me a long time –
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: – to come to the Bible study. There was still fear there, I guess. Once we did, that started me having the spirit of Adventism broken.
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: And I became a Christian.
Colleen: I remember when you registered for your first Former Adventist Fellowship weekend. Do you remember what year it was? It was before 2010 but not long, maybe –
Nikki: ’09?
Cheryl: 2008 or ’09.
Colleen: – ’08. I think it was ’08, because you and Woody came for two years before the year the Stevensons came, I think.
Nikki: Yeah. You gave your testimony in ’10.
Cheryl: Okay.
Colleen: But I remember you registering and saying you wanted your husband to come but he was reluctant, and I remember writing back to you and saying, “I’ll pray that he comes.” And then you wrote later and said, “He is coming.” That was very exciting. It was an indelible memory for me.
Cheryl: That was my birthday present from him.
[General laughter.]
Cheryl: Because my birthday’s in January.
Colleen: There you go. You had a right to ask for that.
Cheryl: I told him, “That’s my gift, and I’ll even pay for it,” so he came.
Colleen: That was incredible.
Nikki: Now, Kelsie, when did you find Life Assurance Ministries?
Kelsie: I first heard of Life Assurance Ministries because I was gifted a couple of Dale Ratzlaff’s books by my Dad. Interestingly enough, my parents had quit attending the Adventist church probably seven years earlier but had kind of just floundered. They just didn’t know what to do or where to go, and my Dad had discovered Dale’s books earlier that year, probably at the beginning of 2003, and we came home for Christmas, and he gifted us those books. I had been questioning for probably four months, heavily questioning. I’d been a believer for already 12 years –
Colleen: But still attending Adventist –
Kelsie: – but still attending Adventist church. I was born again when I was 12, and I spent the rest of my high school and college years determined that I was going to be the change. I went to an evangelical Christian school, and I saw all my friends with the gospel, but I thought, “If only they had the Sabbath; if only they had the Sabbath.”
[General laughter.]
Kelsie: So then I thought then the answer was to take this gospel, which – like, simple message that I had heard when I was 12 and then learned again when training for a mission trip at my school. I was struck by how simple this is, like why have I never seen this before in the Adventist church? I really was flabbergasted. I had no answer for that question, and I thought, “If we can just emphasize this message more. If we can have more grace and less judgment in our Adventist church, then it will be a wonderful place to be.” And then I’m seeing my Christian friends from my school, and then I was also attending their youth groups, thinking, “If they would just – if they could just have the Sabbath, then they would have the full message.”
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: And I didn’t – it’s interesting that I thought that they were lacking something, but I still didn’t see the lack of the gospel in the Adventist church.
Colleen: Oh, interesting.
Kelsie: I thought it was just – like, it was just something that would be beneficial. I didn’t realize that it was a complete and utter lack of something important.
Colleen: That’s interesting.
Kelsie: I had been asking questions in 2003 from throughout the fall. My husband was very, very busy in a new job and didn’t have time to answer my questions or much discussion at all, but he read these books over the Christmas holidays. Between my study and my questions that I was asking on online forums and things like that at that point, and then his reading of Dale’s books, that was the end.
Colleen: Interesting.
Kelsie: We were out by the end of January of 2004. And then I think through that – well, I had found – you know what? When I was studying and asking my questions on the CARM forum, I remember finding the Former Adventist forum, and I just – I couldn’t do it.
Colleen: Oh, interesting.
Kelsie: I could not do it. I was so afraid to join, and then I would just have my head filled with negativity.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: I wasn’t afraid of bitterness so much, but I was just afraid that I would get one side.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Okay.
Kelsie: And I really wanted to see both sides. So I went onto the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry forum, and they had a special page for Adventism, and so there were former Adventists on this page, and there were Adventists, and then there were just Christians, and I started asking my questions, and I presented myself as an Adventist, but I asked the questions – I was very careful to ask them in a nonthreatening way, but the Adventists on that forum, they ate me alive. I have not ever been the recipient of such cruel –
Colleen: Wow.
Kelsie: – insulting treatment, and that is not why I left Adventism, but it was such a stark contrast for me, and that’s actually where I met Rick Barker.
Colleen: Yes.
Kelsie: He was on that forum, and he was the one who responded to me. He would respond to me on the forum, but also in private messaging back and forth, and he had an answer for my questions.
Colleen: Interesting.
Kelsie: That’s another attitude that I had about Adventism that was spoken of this weekend, was just that – or about Christianity, was that they just didn’t know. And I was even out of Adventism 12 years before I realized that there was a Christian answer for all the prophecies.
[General laughter.]
Kelsie: Like, I don’t understand how that happened, but it sure did. But I was surprised by Rick’s answers and the way that he was gentle with me, and he answered my questions. He never insulted me or belittled me for asking the questions. So that, coupled then with the answers he gave me and then my husband reading the books, was how we found Life Assurance Ministries. Also, I didn’t understand or realize that the Former Adventist forum that I was so afraid of was also then connected with Proclamation! magazine. It took me a while to connect that as well. And interestingly enough, I never actually joined the forum.
Colleen: No.
Nikki: No.
Colleen: I don’t remember ever seeing you there.
Nikki: Ever.
Kelsie: I never joined the forum because it seemed like by the time I was interested in that, there was Facebook and a –
Colleen: Right.
Kelsie: –a lot of interaction happens on Facebook.
Nikki: So when did you go to your first conference?
Kelsie: My first conference was actually the first Michigan conference. In 2012? Does that sound like the right year?
Colleen: Um-hmm. That’s where Cheryl and I met you.
Kelsie: Yeah. My family and I had taken a vacation to Miami, and then we thought we would stop back to see Adventist family in Michigan, and then I read in the magazine that there was this conference, and I thought, “Oh, I wonder if we could delay our flights back a little bit so that we could go to this conference?” And so we did, showed up with our two very young boys.
Colleen: They were. They were tiny.
Kelsie: Tyler was not even two, and my oldest one, Matthew, was two and a half, I think. I wasn’t prepared. I had these pictures in my mind of a large gathering of hundreds and hundreds of people, and I remember being shocked that Colleen was there to greet me at the door. It was an interesting thing to be a part of and to listen to. And again, I mean, it’s that experience of being together with people who get you and understand what you’ve been through and where you’ve come from.
Colleen: And then you gave your testimony at the 2016 conference in California.
Kelsie: Yeah. That was also a surprise. I guess I just had this sense that only really important people gave their testimony.
Nikki: So Cheryl, what were your assumptions about the conference before you went? What did you think it was going to be like, and how was it different?
Cheryl: I don’t know if I had any bad assumptions about it. I had seen a newspaper advertisement years before I came. It was in a little community paper.
Colleen: Oh. That’s interesting.
Cheryl: And it said something about having the courage to follow Jesus.
Colleen: Wow.
Cheryl: And I still have that little piece of paper.
Nikki: Wow.
Colleen: Wow.
Cheryl: So I didn’t have any negativity about it. I really didn’t.
Colleen: Interesting.
Cheryl: And I was delighted to come. It was what I expected. It was positive. It was truth-filled, and people like me were there.
[General laughter.]
Colleen: Yeah. I understand that. So having just come out of our 15th annual California conference, Kelsie, what would you say are your primary take-homes from this year’s conference? What stands out to you?
Kelsie: The quality of the teaching. I’ll be honest, I’m going to have to go back and re-watch a lot of the sessions because there’s just so much there, and as I’ve traveled through the last couple of years of my Christian experience, I have just come to appreciate the quality and the depth of the teaching and the careful handling of Scripture, and I’ve realized that it is not easy to find. And how – fortunate is just not the right word, but how fortunate we are to have that here and to have people who are dedicated to teaching truth and to building people up in their faith and helping them understand. I mean, that was something in Adventism – like I said, born again when I was 12, and I saw my friends and teachers even, reading their Bibles and studying their Bibles, and it just always still seemed so confusing to me. I could read chapters, but there’s a lot of it that I couldn’t make sense of, and so the commitment and the assumption that we’re smart enough to understand this –
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Yes.
Kelsie: – and this is not above anybody’s ability to grasp. You can understand this, you can know this. And for me, always my hesitation or fear was not being able to then relay it on when somebody asks me about why I changed. And that does come with time. It does take time, and it takes repetition and relearning, and that’s, honestly, partly why I have decided to make this a habit to come here every year, because I feel like it is such a good refresher and a good rebuilder.
Colleen: That makes sense.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: It builds me up again because, honestly, I mean, life; right? For people who don’t live here – you guys are so fortunate to have your Former Adventist Bible study, but the rest of us who don’t live here might not have that on a weekly basis, and you know, we can do what we can do, but to come here and to be reminded and to be built up again, it really does kind of give me the boost I need to be able to speak, and I know, even just thinking ahead to my blog articles that I need to write in the next few months, it gives me ideas, it gives me a refresher in all of the covenants and all of these things that are going to just help me to be more secure in my faith and more able to talk to other people and to share my faith with other people.
Nikki: Those are great points. I know some people think that coming to a conference like this is just sort of a one-and-done, but when you spend your whole life being brainwashed with particular doctrines, it takes a long time to just unravel the graveclothes, like we’ve said on here before –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: And so, yeah, to be able to come continually – and even living here, we are so blessed to have this ministry and this Bible study. But even for us, these conferences are a boost. They’re like –
Colleen: They are.
Nikki: They’re like a holiday.
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: They’re pretty special.
Colleen: Cheryl, what about you? What stands out to you from this 15th annual conference?
Cheryl: Testimonies that were given.
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: I feel very fortunate and blessed to have any part, anything to do with this ministry because the joy we experience when people who have lived under falseness, lies –
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: – see the truth and leave, it’s a miracle of God, and it’s a great, great joy to witness that. And, yeah, wonderful teaching, being around our brothers and sisters in Christ, because we are brothers and sisters. Nobody condemns us. Being around that and meeting again with people or new people that have seen the truth. It’s just – I don’t know, it’s indescribable, the joy that it brings.
Colleen: That’s true actually. It is kind of indescribable.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Colleen: And it’s a deep joy.
Cheryl: I know, people at our table, and I think around, were weeping as we heard the testimonies this year, the stories.
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: There are different reactions when we leave. There is condemnation sometimes. There is irritation. And the other side of the coin is nobody will talk about it.
Colleen: You mean leaving Adventism.
Cheryl: Leaving Adventism. Sorry.
Colleen: No, you’re fine.
Cheryl: I was a very committed Adventist, and so was Woody.
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: And, can you ask us, like, “Why did you leave?” You feel the judgment, but they won’t talk to you about it.
Colleen: Yes.
Cheryl: I don’t know if that makes sense.
Colleen: And it’s like a deliberate ignore.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Cheryl: It’s an ignoring which is worse than even them getting angry.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: It’s like a passive shunning.
Colleen: Exactly. They don’t care enough to ask. They’ll just be quiet and marginalize you silently.
Kelsie: I mean, in my family we don’t talk about it. Everybody knows, I think.
Colleen: Oh, interesting.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: We get together for funerals and weddings, and we have a great time, and I love my family members.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Kelsie: It’s never acknowledged. And I would love to be able to speak with them. I think – I wrote a blog article a little while ago about this, about what I would say, but it’s difficult. You don’t want to push.
Cheryl: They still love you, but they won’t talk to you about it.
Colleen: Well, it doesn’t feel like love sometimes when that happens, does it?
Cheryl: Kind of the elephant in the room.
Colleen: Right.
Kelsie: That’s what I would say too.
Nikki: I think that there’s a lot of fear for them too.
Kelsie: Oh, absolutely.
Nikki: There’s a lot of fear that motivates their silence.
Kelsie: It’s probably the same fear that I found myself feeling when I came across the Former Adventist forum.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Kelsie: It’s not that you don’t want the truth, maybe, but it’s that you don’t want to be influenced by an undue amount of negativity; right?
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Right.
Kelsie: You don’t want to hear just one side of the story. But there kind of is, in this case – there’s only one true side of the story.
Colleen: That’s a good point.
Nikki: Yeah.
Cheryl: And I think for people that have never come to the conference, it is not a conference of negativity.
Colleen: Absolutely not.
Cheryl: It’s a conference of joy.
Colleen: That’s a really good point. I’ve heard a lot of people express surprise after coming because it wasn’t negative, and it wasn’t just a recounting of one’s grievances or disappointments. It’s not that.
Nikki: No.
Cheryl: Although, if we need to talk about that, we’re not condemned –
Colleen: No, we can.
Cheryl: – for talking about our experience.
Colleen: But the focus is the gospel.
Nikki: Yeah, there are definitely elements of difficult things that need to be worked out in light of the gospel –
Colleen: Exactly.
Nikki: – in light of what the Lord says about living for Him and what we can expect, that there will be problems and persecutions and trials, and so we can encourage one another with the truth of the gospel when we’re at the conference and kind of understand where we’re coming from.
Colleen: Nikki, you had a fun job at our lunch yesterday, our final meal with –
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: – with everybody before they left. You had the mic, and you walked around and asked people for their reactions to the conference.
Nikki: Yeah, it was really incredible to hear all of the different responses that people had to the conference. The surprise they had, you know, about how supportive and how much rich doctrine they were able to receive coming. Yeah, that was a great experience, and we’re going to end with that today. We’re going to leave you guys with that, but before we do, I just want to say thank you, Kelsie and Cheryl, for joining us and sharing a little bit about your experience becoming familiar with this ministry.
Colleen: And thank you from me too. It’s always fun to see you every year, Kelsie. It’s really great to have you here.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: And Cheryl, it’s just fun to have you in here recording with us –
Nikki: [Laughter.]
Colleen: – because you’re one of us. You’re here every week, and we love you.
#1 – Male Attendee: This weekend has been really great from a couple of perspectives: No.1: We’ve met people here that we’ve never seen before, and they feel like family, within hours, not days. [Laughter.] It’s been really great. And, of course, the presentations have been absolutely great.
#2 – Female Attendee: It’s an incredible weekend, to be able to spend time with those who love the Lord and are so thankful to be out of the cult that we were enslaved in, and now to be slaves of Jesus Christ.
#3 – Female Attendee: I think over the weekend I was able to learn a lot, and I think I did learn a lot. And I took a lot of notes too.
#4 – Male Attendee: As always, it was a wonderful weekend. We try to come at least every other year, and it’s just sowonderful meeting and re-meeting people that we’ve met before, and the teaching was just awesome.
#5 – Male Attendee: Well, this is the first time I’ve had the opportunity to come. My wife came for the first time two years ago. It’s been such an eye-opening experience, meeting a lot of people with the same kind of upbringing. [Laughter.] It’s like, you don’t see that much out in the real world outside of the Adventist circles, and just meeting a lot of people. It’s just been a wonderful experience.
#6 – Male Attendee: As a non-former, what I find really valuable about the conferences is I get to see the Adventists who have been out and who are coming out and the struggles that they really face. It also – it helps me when I talk with them. What also helps is to understand the culture of Adventism, because there’s a culture. And that helps me in my dialogues with Adventists because it helps me understand where they are and where they’re coming from and that appreciation for the culture that I know that they are living in.
#7 – Male Attendee: Well, it’s been a life-changing experience. This is my second time that I’ve flown over from the UK to speak here and enjoy the weather. I’ve enjoyed, of course, my church family away from home, and every year it’s just an amazing experience. I joked with Richard earlier today that I experience the New Covenant in a way that I don’t typically experience it during the year, and that’s with a bunch of former Adventists. [Laughter.] And so – maybe that’s ironic, but it’s just so great to be reminded of truth and to understand even, you know, the fact that Jesus has fully fulfilled the Sabbath, and you know, just the other day I was on – actually, it was today I was on Facebook and I was looking at this comment by a Christian Sabbatarian, and it just grieved me. It was after the conference and after all the truth that we have, and to think that Adventists out there look at that and they can point to that, and they say, “Look. At least they have the Sabbath, so what’s wrong here,” and so, there’s a lot of work for us to do, but I’m encouraged. I’m encouraged by this weekend. It’s been a great experience. It’s been wonderful fellowship. Worship that has just been life-transforming. And also, finally, the one thing I wanted to also add is that I’ve been very touched by those never-been-Adventists who have come, who have used their time, their money, who care about us, who really want to listen to us, and I think that’s not easy to do. And that’s something that really touches me. I sense the love, the brotherly love, that they have for us. It’s wonderful.
#8 – Male Attendee: This conference is bringing out stuff by being around all the rest of the people that are just like me, the former Adventists, that I thought I dealt with, but I didn’t, and I haven’t. And there’s a lot of feelings of neglect and anger that I have from my childhood that I’m realizing that the people that neglected me and did not take care of me when I asked for help couldn’t do it because they didn’t have it, they didn’t have Jesus. And Jesus is the only thing that can be a solution to the problems that I have today. Well, if you come to the conference, don’t be afraid to cry because you’re going to do it. [Laughter.] I did because I was so happy and because I’m free in Jesus.
#9 – Female Attendee: So the first time I was actually nervous. I was not knowing what to expect. I came by myself. In fact, I was thinking, you know, I’m only going to come on Friday, and if it sucks, I’m, you know, going back to LA and trying to, you know, see the city, but I was kind of blown away by people that share the same experiences that I had.
#10 – Female Attendee: Well, I’m just amazed at how many people come to these things and have never been. We have a lot of people who are repeats, but then there are always new people who have been plotting and planning how to come and meet people, because there’s nothing like getting together with people who have been on similar journeys as your own and who understand what we’ve had – or continue to have to unpack. So that’s just amazing to me. And one of the things that I really find interesting and amazing is the love that you just feel. As soon as you walk in the room, it’s like you feel – it’s similar to a feeling of when you’ve come home, you know? And you just feel that love, and you feel acceptance and a nonjudgmental atmosphere. And there’s just nothing like it.
#11 – Female Attendee: Well, when I came out here, I wasn’t expecting to get anything because I think I kind of left Adventism, it’s behind me, so I was really bringing my sister friend along because I wanted her to get more closure. I believed that I had the closure that I needed. And I was pleasantly surprised to find out – I knew I had to dump some of the beliefs that I had from Adventism. I knew there might be one or two things that I’m still holding onto that I don’t realize, but I found it is so important for me to stay grounded, to remember where I came from and to remember what Adventism was about rather than just rushing headlong into this new life that I am experiencing. I’m so excited about it. I don’t want to think about the past, but in that excitement, I think I’m taking a lot of the past with me. So I was not expecting somebody to say, “You need to learn grammar, and background is important,” because I thought, “I already know that.” So I have to change my attitude, and I didn’t expect to find out that I’m a babe in Christ, because I’m 50 years old, and I’ve been running a lot of church things, so that to me was a surprise, that I have to change my mindset and be open, be really open, and continue to stay open. And I’m excited about that because I don’t have to shut out, I don’t have to be afraid. I have to learn how to trust. So the podcast was really, really exciting for me because it showed me that I need to trust. I’m very skeptical, I’m scared, “Okay, this bad thing happened to me of Adventism, and I don’t want to be deceived again.” So I was closing out anyone whose views were different from mine, and when Colleen said, you know, “There’s a tendency for some people to want to withdraw and isolate and think that they don’t have to fellowship with one another,” that’s exactly where I am right now. And I was, like, I’m not going to mix with anyone because I need to know the truth for myself. But I’ve realized that in the process of learning the truth for myself, I need to let go. And in letting go, I need to let other people lead me, and I need to let other people show me what they have. So it was more than I planned on getting. I was not planning on getting that. And I learned a lot about the Galatians. I’ve read that, but when I read it the first time as an Adventist, I read it and I wished that I could actually do it. I read it and my friend, and I said, “Wouldn’t this be wonderful if this was true?” And now, it is, you know. Now I don’t have to hide the truth. I don’t have to try my best. It’s done. The righteousness of God, I Am, that same righteousness, not even a different step, one for Jesus, one for me. It is the exact same. So all these things are coming out again, and I’m so excited. I feel as if I’m coming out again, finding the truth again, so that’s exciting. And the last thing that I learned that I had not expected to find out was that little gap that’s missing from the transition of the dispensation where Christ is handing over almost – starting the church as it is now, that blew my mind off last night. I was like, “Oh, wait a minute. This is something that I had no idea.” I just came here as a grief recovery to get over the false, you know, the false teachings and find new, but I didn’t expect it to off at this level. So it really was a good, solid foundation for me, especially with coming to now understand how I move forward, how I need to understand how to read the Bible. I need to understand what Christ’s role was, what the disciples’ role was, and how that plays in and what are we supposed to do right now. So it’s been more than enough. It was more than just meeting people, hugging people, listening to cool testimonies. It was really 100% with it.
#12 – Male Attendee: And it’s just the environment that I feel like, “Wow, I’m finally in a place that I’m not getting characterized, ‘Oh, you’re bitter’ or you’re'” – whatever kind of thing that people that have no clue, coming out of a cult, and the kind of conversations that they say, “Well, you’re out of it. Just get over it.” And the fact I’ve been out now about four years officially. I’ve been out a lot longer intellectually. But I felt – I got over my guilt that I was going to be lost by saying I’m no longer a Seventh-day Adventist.
#13 – Female Attendee: So coming here has been the most humbling and most fulfilling experience of my life since this journey began because – coming here and seeing all these people.
#14 – Male Attendee: This FAF Conference was simply amazing. Leaving Adventism is much more difficult than leaving, let’s say, a Baptist or Methodist church. I’m a third generation Adventist, and I was brainwashed my entire life with Adventist doctrines and beliefs. They are buried very deep in my inner being. This Former Adventist Conference is a very, very special, unique opportunity to not only hear great Bible teaching and how it differs from SDA teaching, but also to meet other Adventists who are leaving and are on the same journey or a similar journey. It’s really reassuring to know that you’re not the only one who is finally seeing Adventism for what it really is – a big, big deception. I would strongly encourage anyone on a similar journey to come to the next Former Adventist Fellowship Conference or, at a minimum, watch the talks online.
#15 – Female Attendee: It was very interesting to hear people’s stories and what they went through to come to know Christ like we do.
Nikki: So tell us who you are.
Elizabeth: My name is Elizabeth Inrig, and I am Gary Inrig’s wife. He is the lead pastor at Redeemer Fellowship, and I have the privilege of leading Women of the Word.
Nikki: And can you tell us, what are some of your thoughts about the conference?
Elizabeth: Well, I think my favorite thing – I have two favorite things. One, I love to hear the Word taught, and I think we heard the Word taught this weekend magnificently. And the second thing, I love to hear the stories of people sitting at the tables, and I got a chance a few times to go around, and I didn’t know them, and I wanted to know: “How did you come to find the Lord?” And it’s just amazing. I’m just thinking that’s what heaven’s going to be like, finding out how we all came to know the Lord.
Nikki: And Elizabeth, your ministry has been so important to this ministry. You’ve taught us so much about how to look at Scripture and how to hold fast to a proper hermeneutic, and words matter, and context is everything. So we are all just so grateful to you for your work that you do for the Lord, so thank you.
Colleen: This is Gary Inrig, and I would like to ask you, Gary, what it’s like for you to participate in an FAF Conference.
Gary: Well, it’s always a privilege to participate in a conference where the concern is: “What does God’s Word say,” and “Can we fellowship together around the truths of God’s Word?” So that makes it a special time because people come wanting to hear what God says from His Word. And there’s also a special kind of privilege of working with people who are wrestling with trying to understand the fullness of truth when they’re coming out of darkness into God’s marvelous light, and some of that darkness holds onto people, so putting it under the light of Scripture, it’s wonderful to see people understanding what Paul says in Galatians when he says, “It was for freedom that Christ set you free.” And we’re free indeed, and so that was fun, to be able to just talk around that truth.
Colleen: Thank you, Gary. We are so grateful to you for all that you’ve done to help us understand Scripture. Thank you for being part of this.
Gary: My privilege.
Nikki: So if you have any questions for us, email us at formeradventist@gmail.com. Also, if you’d like to sign up for our weekly blog emails, you can do so at proclamationmagazine.com, and there’s also a donation button there if you’d like to come alongside us in ministry. Please like us on Instagram and Facebook, and go to iTunes and leave us a review. We’ll see you next time.
Colleen: Bye. †
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