We got mail…

Who is responsible for sin?

In your most recent episode of Former Adventist Podcast you stated it looks like Adam was responsible for teaching Eve she was not to eat the fruit from the tree.  

But then you read the verses where Eve is speaking with that servant and she explains to him that they are not to eat the fruit and why. So, it seems as if she does know they’re not to eat the fruit. 

Did I misunderstand something? Thank you for clarification! 

—VIA EMAIL

Response: Thanks for writing! Yes, Eve clearly DID know…but the biblical account suggests that Adam, not necessarily God Himself, was the one who knew the command initially and had the positional authority to help Eve know it. We get this idea emphasized in the NT where Paul unequivocally states that sin came through Adam, not through Eve. He even says:

For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor (1 Timothy 2:13–14).

In 1 Corinthians 15:20–21 and in Romans 5 Paul says that all of us died IN ADAM. Eve is not the one “credited” with inflicting sin and death on humanity; Adam is. Paul also says that Eve was deceived, but Adam was not. Adam, who was with Eve, watched her discuss the fruit with the snake and take it, and he even took it from her, but he was NOT deceived. He knew what was happening. He sinned with his eyes wide open, in a sense. He did not step in and help or correct her. He allowed it to happen. God held Adam responsible for sin entering the human race.

I hope this helps!

 

Were angels really part of creation?

In last week’s editorial you said:  “And did you know that the angels are part of creation?  When we read in Genesis that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, angels are part of that creation?”

 You can provide me sources for this statement if you like. However, I have already read quite substantially on this question and know where the idea comes from. Also, most Bible commentators agree that there is too little information given in the Bible to establish any firm time for angel creation, only that Job says the angels sang during the creation.

 So, what I would like to know is why you believe the angels were part of the world’s creation discussed in Genesis?

 [I am in complete agreement that EGW invented or copied 100% of what she wrote.  When it comes to angels and her Great Controversy ideas, I personally think she wanders into Zoroastrianism, which begs the question, given her lack of education, how did she got herself there. Anyway, had she had the nerve or seen the benefit of doing so, given a good editor, she probably could have become a best-selling Victorian novelist.  (Too bad for all of us she didn’t give it a try and stay out of religion.)]  But I digress…

—VIA EMAIL

Response: You make good points. As for the angels, you are right; we really can’t say for sure exactly when they were created in the process of creation in the same way we can’t say for sure how long creation took. (True believers vary in their convictions regarding the length of the six days of creation.)

I’m going to share a link that I found helpful. It’s on the Answers In Genesis website. This link is written as an answer for children, but the Scriptures used are helpful to me. EGW definitely told us that angels existed in heaven with God prior to the creation of the world, and she also suggested that the world was God’s last act of creation. But the Bible doesn’t give us that idea. It does suggest creation as an event. You might enjoy this short column as much as I did: When Were The Angels Created?

For me, the significant thing about thinking of creation and angels is simply that they ARE CREATED beings. They seem to have been part of creation, because God says He created Lucifer on a specific day (within the Ezekiel passage addressed to the King of Tyre quoted in the link above), and Genesis says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Paul also confirms that All things: principalities, rulers, authorities—all things were created by God. I know we can’t go beyond what Scripture says, but creation does seem to be referred to both as an event and as a “thing” existing in reality. 

For example, Romans 8:18–25 refers to the “whole creation” being bound to decay by God, not by Satan—and the whole creation groans and suffers the “pains of childbirth” with us as it waits for us, God’s adopted children, to receive our redeemed bodies. Somehow our personal glorification will signal the release of all creation from decay. Angels have also suffered in this decay in which God has bound creation. I don’t mean that the elect angels are bound to decay, but the angelic realm has definitely experienced the mark of sin. We also learn from Colossians 1:20 that Jesus made peace through the blood of His cross, “Whether things on earth or things in heaven.”

All to say, while I can’t say when angels were created, they are part of creation, and as such they are experiencing (as a created form of life) the effects of sin in some way, and in some way we don’t fully understand, Jesus’ death has made peace even within the angelic realm—not at all meaning that Satan will be saved with his minions, but that in some way the angels as a form of life were split by angelic sin and are receiving peace as a result of Jesus’ death. How? I do not know, because Hebrews 2:16 states that Jesus’ incarnation was to give help to “the descendant of Abraham,” not to angels. Yet Paul in Colossians says that Jesus makes peace with everything in heaven and on earth!

Nevertheless, you are right that we can’t say exactly when the angels were created, but I believe that Scripture gives us the understanding that angels are part of creation, and that as part of creation, we can think of them as being more nearly analogous to us humans than they are to God Himself. Revelation 19:10 has the angel telling John not to worship him because he is a fellow servant with him and his brethren. Perhaps the biggest internal shift for me is thinking of creation as both an event (even if it took place over some “days”) and as a “thing” which God brought forth and which exists within reality—a realm of existence which has been bound to decay by the One who had the authority to bind it: its Creator. Even more, it is being restored to peace also by the only One who has the authority to restore it: its Creator!

 

Please help me know how to study the Bible!

It is so helpful to listen to your podcast on the nature of man and Adventist fundamental beliefs. I am gaining so much new understanding; thank you.

You mentioned how you “studied your way” out of the Adventist worldview. I realize that my way of studying as an Adventist was predominantly through the Sabbath School lesson which supported their worldview!  

So now I am unsure how to study my Bible for myself in order to understand the Bible’s view on specific topics such as the nature of man without being deceived Ellen White’s interpretations.

Please, can you help?

—VIA EMAIL

Response: You ask a very good question! You are right about the Sabbath School lessons; they teach from an EGW bias and from the SDA worldview.

I don’t mean to sound trite, but for me, the turning point was simply inductive Bible study. I have to say first, however, that I read Dale Ratzlaff’s Sabbath in Crisis (now Sabbath in Christ) and learned about the new covenant, and that made me look at everything in Scripture differently. Then I read his book The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventism, and I realized how completely deceptive EGW was. She wasn’t merely a victim; she was a deceiver.

But the real key is Bible study. The first thing I learned is that I have to read the Bible as I would read any normal book: the words mean what the words say, and context is EVERYTHING. It was literally reading complete New Testament books, one chapter at a time, and discussing them with our Christian neighbors that started me seeing what Scripture says. We did not learn to read contextually as Adventists! We learned proof texting, and those proof-texts were linked to predetermined Adventist doctrines. So Adventism taught us to use Scripture as a proof for Adventism; it effectively deceived us with the Bible while hiding the truth about the word of God.

A few months ago Nikki Stevenson wrote a wonderful piece about her rules for understanding Scripture. Instead of repeating them, I will link to her article here: “My Rules For Understanding Scripture”

I have had to learn that the first step in reading Scripture is literally to observe the text. If I sit and look at a chapter in John, for example, I have to observe the first verse before I ever try to understand what it “tells me”. I have to know who the author is: who was he? Then I have to know his first audience. Then I look at what he actually says: what is the subject of his sentences? Is there a command? A description, a statement of truth/fact? What are they, and to whom are they addressed?

I have to realize that the verb tenses mean what they say. For example, in John 5:25–29, for example, Jesus says two times that a day is coming. In verse 25 He says, “An hour is coming and now is…” That verb has to be understood as Jesus saying a certain “hour” was coming in the future and also existed then, as He spoke. He goes on to say that the dead will hear His voice and live. That declaration was true at the time He spoke and also into the future. Then He says, “an hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice…” Notice that He does NOT say, “And now is.” These two hours—when the dead will hear and when the people in the tombs will hear—are not speaking about the same event or the same groups of people.

Jesus then says, concerning this second “hour”,  the day is coming when that those in the tombs will hear His voice and will come forth—and then He describes the two resurrections.

That first hour “that is coming and now is” refers to the moment when the spiritually dead who hear His voice, believe, and live. In fact, this verse immediately follows John 5:24 where Jesus says those who believe in Him will not come into judgment but will pass from death to life! 

Jesus is clearly describing the distinction between spiritual “hearing” and new birth and the eventual “hearing” from the state of physical death and rising in the resurrection.

All to say, observation is the first key. What are the actual words? What is the speaker saying? To whom is he saying it? What are the circumstances? 

The words mean what the words say. Verb tense, punctuation, prepositions—they all matter. I cannot believe how much I missed when I looked at Scripture as a sort-of puzzle that I had to figure out and apply to myself. Now, the meaning for the first audience will not be a different message than for me…and applying the principle of the verse to myself has to be the last, not the first, step I take in reading. 

I will also link to you a couple of articles by Elizabeth Inrig in which she introduces principles of inductive Bible study:

• The Science of Interpreting Scripture
• First Steps of Bible Basics: Getting the Big Picture Right

Now I want to give you an assignment: get a notebook, and begin literally copying the book of John into it. Just do a few verses a day, and ask God to teach you what He knows He wants you to learn. You might even use one page for copying and the adjoining page for making notes and asking questions. The single most powerful thing that has helped me to see what Scripture says is literally to immerse myself in Scripture, contextually, and let it teach me reality. It is alive and active, and it reveals us to ourselves, it reveals God to us, and it teaches and changes us!