Two YouTube Comments on Former Adventist Fact Check video “144,000 Are Adventists?
Reminded of Catholic Grandma
You remind me of my dearest Catholic grandma. She loved a lot of jewelry but gave just a few coins at the offering plate at mass.
—VIA YOUTUBE
Wearing Earrings and Judging Adventists
You are out judging the Adventists but look at you. Ears pieced and lips painted to tell God you are improving His workmanship over your body. Is this how you praise God? Yet, you are telling God that His creating you without gold earrings hanging on both your earlobes and His creating you without red lips is not enough so painted your lips red with lipstick. You should provide a biblical basis for your understanding of the 144,000.
—VIA YOUTUBE
Response by online moderator Jim Liley: Notice how those deceived in the Adventist counterfeit pseudo-Christian organization respond with personal ad-hominem responses. Most often the comments are personal judgments formed from years of indoctrination. We actually feel sorry for them, knowing it’s an emotional knee-jerk response, thinking they and they alone have a unique end-times message.
Some of those caught in the Adventist counterfeit pseudo-Christian organization don’t realize they are breaking one of the commandments they want to hold on to with both hands. Bearing false witness and slander is from the domain of darkness. (Col 1:13)
Interesting that those in the Adventist counterfeit pseudo-Christian organization feel attacked when their unique understanding of the Scriptures is shown to not be in alignment with Christianity’s understanding. The 144000 is clearly identified and explained in Revelation 7:1-8, in the video as well as in the pinned article.
You’re So Anti-Freewill
Sorry I have to push back a little (on Former Adventist Podcast “God Does the Choosing: Romans 9:6–13”).
How do you keep quoting John MacArthur ( a well known Calvinist) and get offended when people keep saying you’re reading the book of Romans with Calvinistic lenses on? I’ve been listening to you ladies for a while and I see the hints of all five points of the doctrine in your wording. Even your interpretation of the word sovereignty to mean determinism is obvious. We all agree God chooses and God elects but the only difference between the view you’re propagating and the view of what Scripture is actually saying is: what are they chosen for? Are they chosen for salvation or are they chosen to be the lineage through which the Messiah would come and also the nation that would be God’s mouthpiece to bring the rest of the world into salvation?
I hear you, but when you say God chose some for salvation and He lets condemnation fall on the others and not that they’re chosen to be condemned, it is just a distinction without a difference. The end result is still the same, they end up in hell because God passed over them and did not give them a way to have faith and believe—while commanding them to place their faith in Him to be saved. You have a bunch of people rejecting Christ because God rejected them first, thus they have an excuse come judgment day as to why they didn’t do what He asked. It’s like blaming a donkey for not eating meat when it was not given the ability to do so to begin with. And I notice that’s why you guys are so anti-freewill, because your version of God cannot be sovereign (in control) while there are people out there with freewill. How do you have love without freewill?
Also, if you’re reading the Bible and you end up with a contradiction, just know that it may be your interpretation that’s off instead of appealing to a mystery. God will not contradict himself. The scenario you ladies bring up is not a paradox; it’s a blatant contradiction.
You quoted Psalm 139. Do you know that Psalm applies to every single person God created, not just the ones he supposedly chose for salvation? A purpose was placed on each one of them. But according to your interpretation some were passed over and not given the ability to believe which the natural end result also being them not walking into that purpose God created them for. It’s like God saying one thing and doing things that goes against Himself.
That teaching is dangerous because I’ve seen people who left the faith completely because the version of God you’re promoting is a monster in their eyes.
—VIA YOUTUBE
Response: I get the sense you did not listen to the whole podcast. First, we clarified that God elects some to salvation in Christ, but the Bible never says He elects people to damnation. We are all born dead in sin, under the wrath of God. Only when we believe do we pass from death to life and do not come into condemnation. Second, Scripture also teaches that we are responsible for our belief or unbelief. We make real decisions which have eternal consequences. And yes—God shapes and determines the days and details of every baby, even those who are developmentally disabled or are the product of rape, according to Psalm 139.
How do we reconcile all these things? How do we reconcile that God is in charge of every single life—even if that life is the product of deep sin or genetic flaws? How do we reconcile that we are responsible for our decisions and belief, but God is sovereign and foreknows, predestines, and elects?
We simply aren’t told HOW. We are only told that all these things are true, and we are asked to trust and believe God for whom these things are not contradictory. We can’t harmonize God’s inscrutable truths about Himself; we are simply asked to believe Him and trust Him.
We did not get our beliefs from MacArthur nor from any other teacher; we quote teachers who explain clearly the things that we see in Scripture. Our beliefs flow from our commitment to read the words of the Bible in context using the normal rues of grammar and vocabulary, first observing the text, second interpreting it according to the context and the first audience, and third making appropriate application to us today. We do not believe we can re-interpret the words to mean something different from what they meant to the first audience. †
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