Help Needed Addressing the Health Message
I’m now struggling against Adventist priests and apologists about Adventist doctrines. One thing that they use is proof texts, and they give so many verses to me!
Right now we’re arguing about dietary laws, and our disagreements are these:
- I said that in Genesis 9 God gave Noah commands about what to eat, and God gave Noah everything that moves as food. My Adventist opponent said that in Genesis 7 there was a distinction between clean and unclean animals, so that distinction means that Noah already knew which animals were clean and which were unclean. Thus, he argues, the fact that some animals were previously identified as unclean, those animals are forbidden. God’s “permission” does not include those unclean animals.
- My friend further argues that in Isaiah 66:15 it says: “For look, the Lord comes with fire, his chariots come like a windstorm, to reveal his raging anger, his battle cry, and his flaming arrows.”
Then he asks me, “Do you believe that this will fulfilled? Has it been fulfilled?”
When I agree that God will do what He says He will do, he goes on to verses 16 and 17 in which God will punish those who eat swine and abominables.
His conclusion is that just as God will judge His enemies, so He will punish those who eat unclean meat.
How do we respond to them?
—VIA EMAIL
Response: These Adventist arguments depend upon their putting their own worldview into the text of Scripture. What happened in Genesis 9 happened AFTER the flood; we cannot change the actual meanings of the words by referring to chapter 7 and assuming they inform God’s command in chapter 9. We have to read the words in context and take the literal meanings of each passage.
In chapter 7 God was explaining how the animals were saved. There were more clean than unclean animals. First, we cannot assume that this distinction meant everything the law meant when God gave Moses the dietary laws. In fact, at the time of the flood, God had never given humanity a command to eat meat. The food given to Adam and Eve in Eden is still the only food provision that we know. The designation for “clean” and “unclean” is simply not explained. The way we understand that as we look at the ancient texts is to realize that Moses wrote Genesis, and he was writing from the perspective of having delivered the law of God to Israel. It is entirely possible that the clean-unclean designation was for the purpose of sacrifices.
Noah and primordial man may have had an understanding of certain animals being appropriate for sacrificing to God while others represented pagan rituals. After all, we know that God most likely gave Adam the first instructions for sacrifice at the time He provided them with animals skins to cover their nakedness in Genesis 3. These details are not revealed to us, but we do have the designation of “clean” and “unclean” in Genesis 7—but without any change in diet instructions.
The new diet provisions in Genesis 9 are given to Noah and his family as they exited the ark into a completely NEW world that has been destroyed and changed permanently. They are going to need new food provisions to accommodate the environmental changes that occurred during the flood. For the first time, after the flood, God gave humanity the command to eat meat—and NOT just the clean meats but “everything that moves”. We cannot apply diet restrictions to God’s new statement, “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant” (Gen. 9:3). God clearly said, “I give all to you.” That does not mean everything “clean”. It means “all”.
Regarding Isaiah 66: This prophecy is about the future joy God is promising for Jerusalem. In fact, these prophecies bear much resemblance to the prophecies in other prophetic books as well, in which God gives promises for His future redemption of Israel. The Old Testament prophets as well as Revelation describe God’s judgment on the world and on unbelieving Jerusalem at the end of the tribulation—and they also tell us that Jesus will establish His earthly kingdom in Jerusalem after He destroys His enemies.
When these prophecies were given to Isaiah, the Lord Jesus had not yet come and fulfilled the shadows of the law. God gave Isaiah all these promises in the language of His covenant with Israel. He was telling Israel that the day is coming when He will punish those who do not honor Him. Verse 17 is describing apostate Israelites who were indulging in pagan rituals involving ritual ceremonies and foods associated with idols. They were ignoring God and trying to fit in with the pagans, taking their pagan religions to themselves.
We cannot go to the Old Testament prophecies—passages which were never intended to teach doctrine but were revealing God’s will and ways in the future—and UNDO the clear New Testament teachings. The revelations about foods in the New Testament are given in light of the Lord Jesus and His redemption. Mark 7:19 show that Jesus Himself “declared all foods clean”. We see in Acts 10 that Peter was told he had to eat gentile, unclean food because God was sending Peter to the home of Cornelius to preach the gospel and to baptize the first group of gentile believers into the Lord Jesus. They were not brought under the law; they believed when they heard the good news of the Lord Jesus, and Peter had to eat Cornelius’s food during the days he stayed there.
The book of Galatians also emphasizes that food laws are not part of the gospel of the Lord Jesus. Those law were given to Israel for the purpose of keeping them separate from the pagans to keep them and their holy seed that would bring Jesus into the world. They were not to intermarry with the gentiles, and food laws kept them separate!
We have to read IN CONTEXT. We can’t go backwards and take God’s commands for Israel and apply them to us because we are under a New covenant in Jesus blood, not under a covenant managed by levitical priests and shadows.
The False Three Angels
Before too much time goes by at this momentous time in our history of the “Former Adventist movement”, I must thank you both for your phenomenal presentation on the Angels of Revelation 14. Such a good job, ladies. The dialogue format works exceptionally well. It communicates. It is amazing how the false three angels message was used to obscure and hide the truth of the wrath of God . Just ghastly!
—VIA EMAIL
Response: Praise God that the podcast was clear! I agree; the Adventist version of the three angels is absolutely ghastly! The Lord delivered us from a darkness greater than we knew at first!
A Few Responses to Dale Ratzlaff’s Home-Going
Praying for you all. I’m fighting back tears for a man I’ve never met, but have grown to love.
Love you all.
I’m am so thankful for Dale’s wonderful testimony and his search for truth, as it helped me, and I’m sure many others, searching for unanswered questions when leaving Adventism. He will be missed, and I hope we meet again soon!
May Jesus comfort and bless his family.
I met a guy at the tire shop who left Adventism after learning the truth about the church through Dale. God used Dale in an amazing way to guide people to the truth. Dale’s life is a testament to the fact God will protect those that are willing to stand for him! RIP.
Dale will be missed here, but one day we will see him again! Thank you, Dale, for planting the seed. God used you to open my eyes, and I was born again.
Wow, what a man! He’s now in glory of our Lord! I watched him quite a few years back; Dale has made such a brave move, when he rose up against the sect and took lots of people with him to this awesome journey for the freedom of knowledge of the truth.
My wife and I had the privilege of meeting all the wonderful folks at FAF in 2018. We also got to personally meet Dale and his wife, and we were truly blessed by their testimony on finding truth. We are forever grateful for his work, his love of the Gospel, and the relentless desire for all to come to a better knowledge of Christ. Dale is gone, and will not be forgotten. We will meet again someday soon.
I’m sad to hear that Dale has passed, but I find comfort in the fact that he is now where there’s no pain, no aches, no diseases, no tears. I’m not an Adventist, but I’m married to one. Through Dale’s and you guys’ ministry, I’ve come to understand “the mind of an SDA” and the dangers of believing E.G.W. lies. Thank you, everyone, for everything you do. I hope and pray that my husband’s eyes will be opened and that he will experience the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Dale was a blessing to those who know God’s grace and those who need it. His teachings will continue to instruct us forever.
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