Nikki and Colleen talk about their fear of judgment as Adventists. They show from Scripture that there is a judgment for rewards for believers and a Great White Throne judgment for unbelievers—but there is no investigative judgment. Podcast was published February 12, 2020. Transcription by Gwen Billington.
Colleen: Welcome to Former Adventist podcast. I’m Colleen Tinker.
Nikki: And I’m Nikki Stevenson.
Colleen: And we want to welcome you back to another Bible study today. We’ve had, in our own thinking, going through the process of reviewing that we have spirits, that we are born again and can be sure of being with the Lord when we die, and that our salvation is secure when we pass from death to life, we’ve realized that we’ve also needed to address the subject of judgment, because that is a trigger, I think –
Nikki: Um-hmm. Yep.
Colleen: – for people who grew up Adventist. We’re going to just share some of the study that we’ve done in the last 2 weeks on this subject and invite you to get out a notebook and write down some texts so you can see what you think as you read them. So Nikki, what did you think when you thought “judgment” as an Adventist? What came to your mind?
Nikki: Well, when I was younger, too young to understand the Investigative Judgment, I just remember being afraid.
Colleen: Uh-huh.
Nikki: I remember feeling very watched. You know, when I was real young, I would get in trouble for things I didn’t understand. You know, I didn’t know why I was being punished sometimes –
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: – and so there was a lot of anxiety, that I was going to do something wrong and displease God and not know that I was doing anything wrong, and I just – I had a lot of fear. And then in my 20s I started trying to understand the Investigative Judgment, and that really didn’t deal with the fear.
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: It just kind of helped me get a better understanding of the Adventist doctrines about it. I think, honestly, I was more afraid. I thought I was going to live through the last days. I think a lot of Adventists do.
Colleen: Oh, we were taught we would.
Nikki: I thought that it would be harder for us than it was for anyone else who came before us.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: You know, because we had to be willing to die for the Sabbath. And anyway, so I thought judgment would be a little less merciful on us.
Colleen: Oh, yes.
Nikki: I was just afraid, I don’t know. I just was afraid. How about you?
Colleen: Yeah, me too, terrified. And actually, something you said about being afraid as a child, afraid you would do something wrong, I remember learning as a child that my parents stood in the place of God. I believe that Ellen White actually said that about children, that for a child, their parents stand in the place of God. So if I displeased my mother, it was very clear to me that I was displeasing God, and that was strikes against me, of course.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Yes, I lived in terror of being bad and of being lost and of not passing the Investigative Judgment, which I believed included my not remembering to confess things that I didn’t remember doing.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: I would lie awake at night as an early teen, unable to sleep. I can remember looking at the clock, it would be 2 a.m., and I was still awake, and I was awake because I was afraid I had forgotten to confess a sin.
Nikki: Yeah, I think that’s what it was for me too, because I didn’t always know when I was doing anything wrong. What if I didn’t confess something I did that I didn’t know I did?
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: Yeah. That was scary.
Colleen: I even remember lying in bed as a junior high kid and an early-teener, thinking back to the last Sabbath, because Ellen White had said no secular thoughts or conversations should pass our lips on the Sabbath, and I remembered my parents would often have friends over for dinner. There would be talk of school; there would be talk of my parents’ work. I remember agonizing over the things I had said and begging God to forgive me and yet repeating those sins again. I was never able to get over it.
Nikki: And yet somehow, as hard as that would be to manage, that seemed easier to me than being willing to die for the Sabbath –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – when the Christians came to hunt us and torture us.
Colleen: Oh, me too.
Nikki: I was pretty sure that I had a better shot at remembering every sin, which I knew I couldn’t do, than I had dealing with the persecution of the Adventists.
Colleen: Yes, me too. Oh, my goodness. I was terrified of being hunted and killed one day for the Sabbath.
Nikki: So judgment kind of just seemed like an inevitable moment of failure. I didn’t see my way through it. It was scary.
Colleen: In fact, I was quite sure I would not be saved because I just had so many flaws and so many sins I would commit and didn’t want to and couldn’t remember. I can remember my parents had a well with a very – it was very deep. It was over 200 feet deep, so the water that came up was in about the mid-50s in temperature, so if we measured the well water, it was like 56 degrees. Well, my parents, being of Adventist medical persuasion – my dad was a physical therapist – had kind of set a family rule using the old hydrotherapy methods that a hot shower had to be ended with a three-second full-cold blast. It was the old – you know, the way they used to do in hydrotherapy back in the day.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: And I hated that, but it was like a rule, and being pretty observant and wanting to please, I would follow that rule, and I would stand under that cold blast, which was almost more than I could take, counting to three, and I would get through it by thinking, “Well, if I can get through this, I may be able to get through the burn at the end because I certainly won’t burn long because I haven’t done that much, but I’m sure I will burn.”
Nikki: Oh.
Colleen: I lived expecting and trying to prepare myself.
Nikki: That’s spiritual trauma.
Colleen: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It’s crazy. So that kind of sums up my feelings of judgment. [Laughter.]
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: I realize now that the way we thought as Adventists, everything was judgment. We’re living now in the judgment, because Jesus is up there going through the books. We’re living towards our death not knowing if we will pass that judgment. And then we’re going to be raised someday to inevitable judgment again, not knowing if it’s going to be death or life. So there is no place where we face judgment and get over it until the almost mythical Second Coming, which will be the last great judgment. So it’s kind of a weird concept of judgment.
Nikki: And then you have the people who are judging you in your walk as an Adventist because they’re trying to help you prepare for the judgment –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – so they’re letting you know all the Ellen White stuff you didn’t know, like when I got married, I learned a lot about Ellen White’s dietary rules that I didn’t know before.
Colleen: [Laughter.]
Nikki: And you know, everybody’s just helping each other. [Laughter.]
Colleen: I know. [Laughter.] And it’s like, if you didn’t tell me, I wouldn’t be responsible for it because that’s what we were also told. [Laughter.]
Nikki: Yeah. [Laughter.]
Colleen: Don’t tell me anymore! [Laughter.]
Nikki: That’s true. Ignorance really was bliss –
Colleen: Yes!
Nikki: Based on – yeah, on that worldview. So the view of the judgment was very twisted, very scary, and impossible to see our way through. And what I keep seeing is when former Adventists come out of Adventism, early on, sometimes longer than even early on –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – the last thing they want to study is judgment.
Colleen: That’s very true.
Nikki: It’s very scary. It’s a big, “Nah, I don’t need that.”
Colleen: Yes. You know, just this morning I asked our friend Steve Pitcher some questions about the Investigative Judgment and what he thought were the key texts that they used for the Investigative Judgment, and he confessed, and he says, “I have had a really hard time looking at the book of Daniel.”
Nikki: Wow.
Colleen: I mean, he does now.
Nikki: He’s been out a long time.
Colleen: Um-hmm. And he does now, but yeah, it was very hard. By the way, Nikki, didn’t you read something from Chapter 40 in Ellen White’s Great Controversy that kind of describes –
Nikki: After – I know I keep bringing this up over the last several podcasts now, but after watching that Amazing Facts –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – or as Audrey put it, Amazing Lies episode –
Colleen: [Laughter.]
Nikki: – with Doug Batchelor and seeing how he depicted the last day events right up to the return of Christ, I was pretty horrified, and in preparing for this podcast, I decided I would just look into where some of that stuff came from because he didn’t say it was from Ellen.
Colleen: Right. Go back to the seat of trauma.
Nikki: Yeah. So I did, and it’s Chapter 40 of The Great Controversy. In fact, if you have never been an Adventist, I would encourage you to look online and read – it’s online.
Colleen: Um-hmm, yes.
Nikki: Read Chapter 40 from The Great Controversy worldview so that you can get a picture of the Adventists in your life, get a picture of what they’ve been raised to believe about that return of Christ. You’ll understand the trauma, the questions, the fear –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – that may not make sense if you don’t get their worldview. It was shocking. It read like science fiction.
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: If it were true, there’s absolutely no loving that day for any Christian.
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: You cannot love His appearing –
Colleen: That’s right.
Nikki: – if it unfolds the way that Ellen White talked about it. It was just dark. She had – I don’t even know what to call them – the believers, the commandment-keepers –
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: – were there through all of the wrath of God.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: And their ability to stand was completely based on their own merit.
Colleen: Because there’s no mediator.
Nikki: It was really hard to read. In fact, I couldn’t finish reading it because it was so blasphemous at the end. I actually got sick to my stomach.
Colleen: I understand that. In order to understand how we can unpack the concept of judgment so that we understand what the Bible says about it, we kind of first have to look at some of the primary key texts for the Investigative Judgment and look at what they actually mean in context because, guess what? There is no Investigative Judgment. And how do we know that? We know that from Scripture. There are a couple of texts that are primary. They’re like the Adventist central passages to try to prove it, but if you look at them in context, their proof falls apart, and the reality is that God is merciful and gracious. I just want to start by mentioning one that is perhaps primary in terms of Adventists trying to prove that there’s a pre-advent judgment, and it’s found in 1 Peter 4:12-19. It’s interesting to me that they’ve had to try to rename the judgment because Investigative Judgment really does not make sense biblically, and in order to maintain their doctrine among their scholars, who interact with evangelical scholars, they’ve called it a pre-advent judgment, hoping to make it sound more biblical. It isn’t, but they’ve renamed it and tried to use new texts to support it. So in 1 Peter 4:12-19, we read this. And I’m going to read it from the ESV. “Beloved, do not be surprised” – by the way, let me back up. Peter is writing to the scattered Jewish believers. He’s speaking to Christians, Jewish Christians. “Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.” Now, these scattered believers were being persecuted. They’re persecuted partly because they’re Jews in the Roman territories, where they’ve been scattered, but primarily because they are Christians. “But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when His glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.” Now, here is the key text Adventists use, “For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?” And then it goes on, “And ‘If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?’ Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.” Nikki, as you read that, in context, what is this passage saying?
Nikki: It’s talking about how to suffer as a Christian.
Colleen: Yes. And is it talking about God judging them for their deeds and perhaps coming up short?
Nikki: It’s so interesting. You know, once you leave Adventism, you can read a passage, and it’s almost like knowing two languages.
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: You can read it through the lens of your former worldview –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – and read it through just the Scripture view. And sitting here listening to you read it with the Investigative Judgment in mind, this would be a terrifying thing as an Adventist to hear.
Colleen: Yes. Yes.
Nikki: It’s just not saying what the Adventists are trying to make it say.
Colleen: Not at all. When it talks about “time for judgment to begin at the household of God,” they’re not talking about God judging them for salvation or not.
Nikki: Uh-uh.
Colleen: Number one, he’s talking to believers, people who are born again and are suffering for Christ. That’s something that Jesus said would happen with His followers, it’s something Paul says, it’s something Peter says. The Bible is filled with it. We suffer for the Lord when we know Him. It’s not a matter of “are you going to pass the test.” But when it talks about judgment beginning at the household of God, it’s referring to believers experiencing persecution. It’s simply a matter of God’s judgment is allowing His people to suffer so that they learn to trust Him. In other words, in this passage in 1 Peter, the judgment beginning at the household of God is not saying that God is judging to see who’s worthy or who has unconfessed sins or who is going to be saved or who is not. This is talking to people who are already saved. This judgment is a judgment where God allows suffering to come to His people in order to reveal what a true believer looks like under pressure. This is a judgment that reveals who is the real thing and who is not. It’s a judgment separating believers from unbelievers and so the believers will shine because of their faith.
Nikki: And we do see that modeled in other parts of Scripture.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: This makes me think of the Christians all over the world who are being persecuted right now.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: The fake believers are not going to stand firm in the faith during –
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: – during the fiery trials. They’re going to run. The true believers are going to – they’re going to endure, they’re going to persevere. We see that when we look at the persecution of the church in the first century –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – you know, when they were being burned at the stake, and they endured.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: The ones who weren’t real Christians, they didn’t go that far. We see right here in verse 16, “If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.” We’re being told right here by Peter, “If you’re a Christian you don’t need to fear this.”
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: This is a refiner’s fire, so to speak.
Colleen: Yes! Exactly.
Nikki: And we see this kind of things in James 1:2, “Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.”
Colleen: That’s right. That’s awesome, actually. And you know, this whole passage of 1 Peter 4, where Adventists yank out a phrase and say, “This is the proof that there’s a pre-advent Investigative Judgment,” the lie is put to it by the context, because as we’ve already said, this passage in verse 12 starts with, “Don’t be surprised by the fiery trial when it comes upon you.”
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: “Rejoice. You’re sharing in Christ’s sufferings.” And then after that sentence, it says, “For it’s time for judgment to begin at the household of God, and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God.” Ironically, Adventism does not teach the gospel of God. They’re taking this text to apply it to themselves, to apply it to a false, unbiblical, completely unfounded doctrine that is the central pillar of their organization. Without the Investigative Judgment, they have no Adventism. And they are taking this text, which is a statement of hope when believers face trials, and they’re using it for themselves, but in reality, they are the ones who are not obeying the gospel of God. They are saying that God is investigating believing – professed believers to see if they’re worthy of being saved, and Jesus is not up in heaven doing that. In fact, this passage ends with this amazing hope: “Therefore, let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.” We can trust Him while we suffer for His name.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: He’s faithful.
Nikki: This is an example of a proof text.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: Where they yank something out of its context and use it to build and support a doctrine. Our doctrines come from the didactic teaching of Scripture.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: This passage does not teach the Investigative Judgment.
Colleen: No, it doesn’t.
Nikki: It just happens to have the word “judgment” in it.
Colleen: That’s exactly right! And Adventists illegitimately use it to try to prove their fake doctrine.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Another thing that we have to look at briefly here is Daniel 8:14 and Daniel 7. Daniel 8:14 is the central doctrine that supports their idea of the Investigative Judgment, and it doesn’t teach the Investigative Judgment at all. This is the passage that they used when William Miller’s prophecy failed. Those who have been through Adventist Bible classes will remember that Daniel 8:14 is the text Adventists try to use to say that Jesus entered the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844, and commenced the Investigative Judgment, and here is the text: “He said to me, ‘For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored.'” But I have to say, Adventists have to use that text in the King James because it says, “Unto 2,300 days and then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” That’s the KJV. A more accurate rendering of the passage is: “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored,” and of course, if you don’t use the KJV, you lose some credibility for even trying to build an Investigative Judgment out of this text, but this is the text, in context it’s talking about the temple in Jerusalem and about the defiling of the temple. In fact, the rest of the chapter continues by explaining the meaning of Daniel’s vision in the first part, and it specifically says that the beast that represents Greece will bring forth a warrior who will trample the temple, and that happened. We know that happened. That happened when Antiochus Epiphanes went in and offered a pig on the altar, and for literally 2,300 evenings and mornings, the evening and morning sacrifice, as prescribed by the Law of Moses, was not offered. It was defiled and trampled underfoot by the Greeks. And then it was restored. That’s the story of the Maccabees, when the Maccabees went and defeated the Greeks, took the temple back, and they reconstituted it. So in context, this has nothing to do with Jesus entering anyplace, certainly nothing to do with Jesus going over the book, and certainly nothing to do with Jesus figuring out who forgot to confess a sin. This has nothingto do with judgment. Yet this is the central text. They also use Daniel 7, where it talks about the Ancient of Days. And Daniel has a vision in Daniel 7:9. “I kept looking until thrones were set up, and the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow and the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, and its wheels were a burning fire. A river of fire was flowing and coming out from before Him; thousands upon thousands were attending Him, and myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; the court sat, and the books were opened.” And then it talks about the beast that he had seen in vision being thrown into the burning fire and the rests of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them, and then he has another vision. But before we just look at this next vision, Nikki, does that ring a bell? Where else do we read about books being opened?
Nikki: Revelation 20.
Colleen: Absolutely, after the millennium.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Um-hmm. So this is a vision Daniel is having that is repeated with more detail when God gives a vision to John, and we’ll talk more about that later, but for right now, Adventists use this as proof that God is going to come, there’s a great white throne judgment where the books are opened, and we’re all being judged, and they use that to talk about the Investigative Judgment moving into the judgment at the end when Jesus returns, and then we have the Son of Man presented in Daniel 7:13. “I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away; and His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed.” Adventists generally moosh this whole vision into the second coming of Jesus and the judgment and reigning forever and the new earth, but it’s interesting that the very specific words of this vision are not really talked about in Adventism. What does it make you think of, Nikki? When do you think of Jesus being presented before God and being given dominion, glory, and a kingdom that everyone would serve Him?
Nikki: Millennium.
Colleen: Yes. And even perhaps at His ascension in a somewhat preliminary way.
Nikki: Yeah. Um-hmm.
Colleen: He’s presented before God as the perfect sacrifice who has defeated death and sin. And He’s given dominion, glory, and a kingdom, and obviously, the kingdom isn’t fully here yet, but He is reigning now. And the kingdom, according to Revelation 20, will be a literal sitting kingdom. The Adventists don’t talk about that. I think the thing about this particular prophecy that I love the most is that He’s called “one like a Son of Man.” This is the only reference to that phrase in the Old Testament, and this was the phrase Jesus applied to Himself. And in the Book of Mark, He especially uses the term “Son of Man.” The Son of Man is His name for Himself, and when He came to earth, He did identify Himself – the Jews knew this prophecy, and He identified Himself as the Son of Man mentioned in Daniel’s vision. Really, those Jews had no excuse. Just saying.
Nikki: No.
Colleen: He was very clear.
Nikki: So I have a question for you about verse 14 in chapter 8.
Colleen: Okay.
Nikki: “For 2,300 evenings and mornings, then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.” Is this the moment where Hiram Edson had the vision in the cornfield and he saw Jesus move from the Holy to the Most Holy Place, and this is when He began applying His blood, which He took with Him to heaven, I guess, to –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: This is. Okay. Attached to this verse, something I didn’t know as an Adventist and didn’t know for actually a long while after I left Adventism, attached to this idea, Ellen White said that when Jesus went into the Most Holy Place, Satan went into the Holy Place –
Colleen: Yes, she did.
Nikki: – and he sat on the throne of Christ, and he is the one who’s answering the prayers of the non-Adventists.
Colleen: That’s right. She said that.
Nikki: I think that’s important for Christians to know. I think it’s important for Adventists who say, “Oh, we’re just like you” to know.
Colleen: Yes. It’s true. That’s absolutely part of her vision. Adventists don’t talk about it much anymore because it’s clearly so –
Nikki: It’s horrible.
Colleen: It’s heretical.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: And even Adventist scholars know that that’s not supportable in the Bible.
Nikki: Well, I discovered this reading her material on their Ellen White website.
Colleen: Exactly. It’s there.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: They can’t get away from it. It’s there, and she is their Fundamental Belief #18, The Gift of Prophecy.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: This is part of her prophecy.
Nikki: And she said everything she wrote is from God or not.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: So –
Colleen: So we have to assume they take it as from God, or if they don’t, they are deliberately believing things they know are untrue, which is unbelief and blasphemy.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Yes, you’re right. She said that Satan is now sitting on the throne in the Holy Place – how he gets there is anybody’s guess – and he’s answering the prayers of those who don’t believe in the Investigative Judgment scenario.
Nikki: Professing Christians –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – who don’t believe Adventist doctrine.
Colleen: And they’re believing a deception, not knowing it’s a deception, believing that Jesus is hearing their prayers, but Satan is answering them.
Nikki: Ooh, it’s dark. It’s a dark doctrine.
Colleen: It is. So now, as a Christian, when we think of judgment, what do we think now? What have you discovered, Nikki? I know we’ve both been doing some study on this in the last couple of weeks, knowing we were going to address this, because it is the big trigger for fear for us.
Nikki: Yeah. If our listeners have not yet listened to the Security of the Believer, they need to go and listen to that –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – because we do talk about the fact that once we’re saved we pass out of judgment.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: We’re actually transferred into the kingdom of the beloved Son. We pass out of death and into life, and when I think about judgment now, I think about it two ways. I think about the fact that I am no longer judged for salvation –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – but I now understand that I will give an account to God for the works that I do for Him that He’s given me to do.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: It’s interesting, it’s actually something that is encouraging and exciting now when I think about it, as opposed to fearful.
Colleen: Um-hmm. That’s true. Now, I think it might be helpful if we unpack judgment for salvation and what that means and what it doesn’t mean. When it says in John 5:24 that he who believes does not come into judgment but has passed out of death into life, if God is just and we are sinners, how do we explain that we have passed out of death into life eternally? Where is the justice in that? Where does the judgment for our sin take place?
Nikki: That’s at the cross. Christ is both just and the justifier. He was the propitiation for our sin. He appeased the wrath of God.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: And He became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Colleen: Yes. Exactly. And that’s really important because God is just, and nobody just gets forgiven because God’s a nice guy and doesn’t want us to suffer. And there’s kind of a feeling of that among a lot of – even among Christians, but especially among Adventists.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: But no, there is justice, and there is judgment. And the judgment for sin is either on us or it’s on Jesus, and if we have trusted Him, we pass out of judgment because we have trusted His work on the cross. That’s where the judgment for our sin occurred.
Nikki: One of the things you told me early on when I left Adventism that’s been helpful to me is that we are no longer lost or saved on the basis of our works, but we are lost or saved on the basis of our belief.
Colleen: That’s right.
Nikki: And that’s so clear in John 3 – you know, we all know John 3:16, but John 3:16-18 –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: We’re born judged already.
Colleen: Correct. So if judgment for the believer, if judgment for salvation, judgment for sin is a transaction that happened between God and Jesus on my behalf at the cross, when I trust Him, Jesus’ death, as you said, is what pays – propitiates God and pays for my sin. That’s where our judgment happened.
Nikki: And it’s done.
Colleen: And it’s done.
Nikki: It’s complete. Hebrews was really helpful, really helpful to me in understanding that we serve a seated High Priest.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: His work is complete. It is finished.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: He has paid for our sins.
Colleen: Um-hmm. If our salvation is secure and the judgment for our salvation or for our eternal life has already occurred in Jesus on the cross and becomes ours when we trust Him and believe, then the judgment for works is something that doesn’t mean we’re saved or lost on the basis of what we do in the flesh, and I think this has been one of the biggest learning curves for me. The Bible does teach that God will judge the works we do in the flesh, but He’s talking about us having passed out of death into life. There’s another kind of judgment that we face, but it’s not a judgment for sin, it’s a judgment of what we do, whether our works will survive into eternity or whether they will be burned up and blown away. It doesn’t mean we will be saved or lost.
Nikki: And you know, that’s kind of a hard thing to explain to people on the fly.
Colleen: Yeah.
Nikki: And when we talk about knowing that we’re saved and that it’s on the basis of the work of Christ, the push back that comes from Adventists and even those who can’t see the security of the believer in Scripture, it’s “Okay, so you’re saved, now you can do whatever you want.”
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: This podcast really answers that question. Also the previous one I hope people will go back and listen to.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: But before we talk about some of those works that we do that the Lord judges, I just want to point out again – and if you’re taking notes, write this down, this is a good one. Titus 3:4, “But when the goodness and lovingkindness of God our Savior appeared, He saved us not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” That is purely the work of Christ.
Colleen: Exactly.
Nikki: It says He saved us not on the basis of our works done in righteousness.
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: We will do works in righteousness, but that has nothing to do with our salvation. It’s not on that basis.
Colleen: Exactly.
Nikki: So what is He going to do with those?
Colleen: That’s a really good question. Shall we start with 1 Corinthians? 1 Corinthians 3, and I’m going to read 10 through 15, because the key verses are kind of embedded in this, and it’s always good to have context.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: “According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation and someone else is building upon it.” Now, let me just say this, Paul is not saying he is the foundation. He is saying he built a foundation when he came to the Corinthians and preached the gospel. The foundation that he laid is Christ, as we learn in Ephesians 2. The foundation of the church is laid by the apostles and prophets, and Christ Jesus is the cornerstone. So this is what Paul is talking about. He as an apostle is laying the foundation of the church in Corinth, not because he has a special message of his own. He is preaching Christ.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: So I’ll read that text again and go on. “According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation and someone else is building on it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become manifest; for the day will disclose it” – and he’s speaking of the Day of the Lord – “because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
Nikki: I love that verse. [Laughter.]
Colleen: Tell me why.
Nikki: Because it’s very clear that this is not about our salvation. Our salvation is not on the line here.
Colleen: Right. God is going to reward us, and you know, the Bible doesn’t tell us very much about this. It doesn’t explain what kind of rewards we’ll receive, what they’ll look like. It just doesn’t tell us. But we know that we are working as believers to please Christ and to receive that “well done,” that reward from Him. Paul talks about it in Philippians, that he presses forward to receive the crown for which he’s worked. He is reaching to take hold of the reward. That’s something that the Lord tells us is going to be ours, and He asks us to persevere and receive that reward.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: But He doesn’t explain what it looks like.
Nikki: This section always makes me think about the teachings of Ellen White that we are responsible to get people saved, and I used to think that our works and the fruit of our work was completely related to how people received the gospel.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: And just above this passage, starting in verse 6, he’s talking about people making divisions between, you know, “I follow Paul, and I follow Apollos,” and he says, “I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one; and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.” So we see that our call is to obey God in the work that He gives us to do. He’s the one responsible for the growth. And we see that we receive rewards for the work that we do.
Colleen: Yes. In the passage that you just read, it even referred to it as “wage.”
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: So a reward, or a wage, is something that we receive that’s commensurate with the work we’ve done.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: If you enter a contest and win, you’ll receive a reward. The reward is a compensation, in a sense, for the work you’ve done, for surpassing everyone else. A wage is compensating you for the work you’ve done. This is not salvation.
Nikki: Uh-uh.
Colleen: I used to read this passage as an Adventist and see I might lose my salvation.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: Salvation, it’s very important to remember, is not a reward.
Nikki: Right.
Colleen: It is not a wage. Salvation is a free gift. It’s based entirely upon whether or not we believe. It’s based on the work of Christ, not a reward to us.
Nikki: And there’s a passage that really clearly explains that. Where is that found?
Colleen: Yes, that’s Romans 4:4 and 5. “Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: ‘Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.'”
Nikki: So it’s very clear that when we’re talking about wages, we are not talking about salvation.
Colleen: Correct. And this reward mentioned, this judgment mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3, is not a judgment for salvation, and this is a judgment that only believers will experience. It is not a judgment for sin. It is a judgment of evaluation and what we have done building with permanent, eternal, Christ-centered work on the foundation of the church which the apostles laid. That work will survive and be rewarded, and if stuff we have done has been useless or not based on Christ, it will be burned and blown away, but we will be saved. That’s an amazing thing I did not understand as an Adventist.
Nikki: Um-hmm. And it’s important to highlight here the fact that no one can lay a foundation other than that which is already laid.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: Adventism went back and laid a new foundation. They went back and said, “Oh, Jesus didn’t have this message yet.” [Laughter.]
Colleen: That’s true, they did.
Nikki: And they added new stuff, and you’ve just got to stay away from that stuff.
Colleen: Yeah, because that’s a false foundation.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: And there’s one more central passage that teaches the judgment of works for the believer, and that’s attached to this passage that we already talked about, like 3 weeks ago, on what happens to a believer when he dies, that we go to be with the Lord. It’s significant to me that this is all connected. I’m going to read 2 Corinthians 5:6-10. “Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord – for we walk by faith, not by sight – we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.” There it is. [Laughter.]
Nikki: [Laughter.]
Colleen: “Therefore” – verse 9 – “we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.” And we talked before about the fact that if we don’t exist, we can’t be pleasing to Him.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: When we are departed from our body, we are still pleasing to the Lord. And then verse 10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.” This is talking about believers, talking to believers, it’s not talking about unbelievers, but we will appear, and we don’t know exactly when this will happen or in what context, we’re just told that it will happen. We will appear before the judgment seat of Christ, but this is not for salvation. This is, again, a judgment of our works – will they survive or not?
Nikki: Um-hmm. That explains why we could always be of good courage. [Laughter.]
Colleen: Exactly. Exactly.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: We are safe. We are eternally secure. And the Lord will deal with our works, and even if we have works burned up – and I’m sure I will have half my life burned up or more – even if we have a whole lot of works burned up, He will still love me as His daughter and keep me secure for eternity.
Nikki: And the fact that we make it our aim to please Him, that’s the part that I always wish I knew how to explain to Adventists who say, “So now you can do whatever you want.”
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: No, no, He changed my desires. He put it in me to want to please Him.
Colleen: Yes. It’s like a non sequitur when they say, “Oh, so now you can go out and kill and steal and commit adultery and eat ham sandwiches.”
Nikki: [Laughter.]
Colleen: Well, the only thing there I’ll do is the ham sandwich. You know, the only thing I want to do is the ham sandwich. [Laughter.]
Nikki: [Laughter.]
Colleen: There’s no desire to offend my Lord.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: I want not to. I want to please Him.
Nikki: And actually, kind of along with that, is this new experience of actually grieving when I sin.
Colleen: Yes, that is a new thing.
Nikki: Grieving over sin, I didn’t grieve over sin as an Adventist.
Colleen: No, I didn’t either.
Nikki: So our pastor, as you know, has been preaching through 1 John, and he said something on Sunday that I just loved, and I wrote it down, and it kind of helps explain what we’re trying to say here.
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: He said, “The love of God is not a license to live as we please, but a summons to live in a way that pleases Him.”
Colleen: I love that.
Nikki: That’s Gary Inrig, and that’s really the call of the believer.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: It’s the desire the Lord puts on our heart. John MacArthur says that we pursue a better condition, not position. Our position is fixed in Christ.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: So the works that we do for the Lord – as I was preparing for this podcast, I noticed there seems to be some kind of like categories that keep coming up.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: One of them is the work we do to spread the gospel. It’s the Great Commission. There are texts that talk about ministers receiving commendation from the Lord for the work that they do. In Matthew 10:42, Jesus talks about those who receive a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: And those who receive a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. So there’s a sharing in rewards when you’re doing ministry together, sharing in that, and we see in Matthew, all over Matthew, actually, that we get rewards for being persecuted or slandered because of Jesus. That’s in 5:12. In Colossians 3:24 we see rewards for roles in family.
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: Hebrews 11:26 talks about Moses considering the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt because he was looking to the reward.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: 2 John verse 8, we’re warned against being deceived by false teachings about Christ so that we may not lose what we have worked for but may win a full reward. We see rewards all over the place. Matthew 6 talks about those who will not receive a reward.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: He talks about those who flaunt their righteousness, and they receive their reward there with their false reputation and the attention that gets them.
Colleen: Exactly.
Nikki: In 6:2 for their public giving.
Colleen: Oh, right.
Nikki: You know, they give financially in public, and they don’t receive their reward. Their vain, repetitious prayers in public, their public fasting, they have already received their reward, but He says, “Your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” He tells us to do these things in secret and to serve Him in humility, and we receive rewards. Also, there are the rewards that we gain from the personal work that Christ gives us. Ephesians 2:10 says that God prepares work for us from eternity past.
Colleen: Oh, that’s true.
Nikki: And Ephesians 6:8, you know, the work that we do in the workplace. 1 Corinthians 4:5, ministers receive commendation. Colossians 3:23-24, again we see the wives. In Ephesians 6, I believe it is, where it talks about children obeying their parents.
Colleen: Yes, um-hmm.
Nikki: There are all kinds of places in Scripture where – what was it you called it earlier when we were talking about it where we do the “one anothers,” where we’re loving one another, serving one another.
Colleen: The Lord will reward us for the work we do for Him in Christ when we are loving one another for Christ. The Colossians 3:24 passage that you mentioned is one that I especially love too. I’m going to read 23-25.
Nikki: Okay.
Colleen: “Whatever you do” – and this again is to believers, who are secure, who are eternally alive – “work heartily as for the Lord and not for men,” and I think about that sometimes. The work that we do, whether it’s for an employer or whether it’s just at home or whether it’s in ministry, the work that we do, all of it, is for the Lord.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: And I have to think about the fact that I’m answering to the Lord Jesus, not to a mere man or woman.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: So “work heartily as for the Lord and not for men,” and here it is, “knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there’s no partiality.” So the inheritance, I find that a really interesting word. I thought a lot about that. It says in Romans 8 that we did not receive again the spirit of fear, but the spirit of adoption, by which we cry, “Abba, Father,” and this is a certainty, that we are co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in His suffering. So we are receiving an inheritance with Christ. Exactly what that looks like, we’re not told, but we know it includes a glorified body and an eternity with the Father and with Christ. Whatever that inheritance is, which is not fully revealed to us, that inheritance is our reward. It’s not eternal life that is our reward, and I know as an Adventist I never had those two things separated.
Nikki: Uh-uh.
Colleen: I thought of heaven equaling salvation. No! Salvation is when our dead spirits come to eternal life through faith in Christ. We have salvation now if we have believed, and that will not change through eternity. The reward is the inheritance, the actual inheritance that will be ours when we’re transformed physically, glorified physically, eternally with our glorified Savior. That’s the reward we will get, and we don’t have it all defined, but salvation does not equal inheritance. Salvation is a gift, which makes us a son or a daughter. The inheritance is what the son and daughter receive from the Father.
Nikki: Yes! And that inheritance is imperishable. I’m going to read 1 Peter 1:4, “To an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
Colleen: Isn’t that awesome?
Nikki: It’s wonderful!
Colleen: And inheritance is a certainty, and that’s our reward for the works done as believers. It’s a sure thing. It’s not a “maybe I’ll get it.” It’s “if we’re His, we have an inheritance.” What exactly the rewards look like? What does it exactly look like that our works are kept or blown away or burned up? We don’t know for sure, but we know that if we are His, we are secure.
Nikki: So I want to mention that when I first started studying this as a new Christian, I remember reading through Revelation and reading the different letters to the churches, and in those letters you see over and over John writes, “To him who overcomes, he will receive…” and there are various things that they receive. And I remember thinking, “Now, wait a minute, this sounds like eternal life. This sounds like salvation. Am I working for my –” It confused me.
Colleen: Um-hmm.
Nikki: “To him who overcomes.” And I just want to bring this up in case we have people listening going, “Yeah, but what about this? What about that?”
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: One of the things that was so wonderful was when I discovered that when you read the Bible, you consider who’s writing.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: You have to consider the author and how they write and how they use words. And John wrote the Gospel of John and 1, 2, and 3 John and Revelation. So if you go to 1 John chapter 5, we see right at the beginning, “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of Him.” And he says, “For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.”
Colleen: That defines what it means to overcome.
Nikki: Yeah. It’s our faith. So even here, we have the same author –
Colleen: Good point!
Nikki: – who says these things in Revelation, “To him who overcomes, to him who overcomes,” and then he says, “Who is it that overcomes but him who believes and has faith.”
Colleen: In Jesus, in the Lord Jesus.
Nikki: Yeah. So that really helped me with – that was my, “Yeah, but…” [Laughter.]
Colleen: Right [Laughter.]
Nikki: When I was first learning about rewards.
Colleen: Good point.
Nikki: So then, what is the posture of the Christian when we think about the Second Coming of Christ? It’s not what we described at the beginning of the podcast.
Colleen: No.
Nikki: It’s not being terrified and uncertain. We have a certain hope, a real hope, a true hope.
Colleen: Absolutely.
Nikki: And it’s not a “I hope I’m saved.” It’s because I’m saved I have hope.
Colleen: Exactly.
Nikki: In 1 Thessalonians 5:9 we read, “For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we might live with Him,” which by the way, is another great text to say that whether we’re asleep or awake, we live.
Colleen: We’re not dead.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: We’re not gone.
Nikki: We’re with the Lord.
Colleen: Yeah.
Nikki: So we’re not ordained for God’s wrath, but in Chapter 40 of The Great Controversy, all of those law-abiding citizens are enduring the wrath of God on the planet. It’s a horrifying scene.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: In 1 John 4:16-18 it says, “By this” – and he’s referring to abiding in God, by abiding in God – “is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.” We see at the beginning of this section that we’re perfected in love when we’re born again and abiding in God.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: And we have no fear of judgment at that point, because it has to do with punishment. We’re not going to be punished. Christ took that.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: Also, believers love His appearing. That’s new!
Colleen: Oh. Yeah, it’s new.
Nikki: I can’t tell you how many people said and how many times I thought, “Oh, I hope He doesn’t come yet. I want to do this, and I want to do that.”
Colleen: Oh, me too! I used to think that.
Nikki: It was a scary thing, and it was almost an interruption.
Colleen: Exactly.
Nikki: Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:8 that he’s run the race, he’s kept the faith, and he says, “Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.”
Colleen: Isn’t that interesting? “Have loved,” past tense and ongoing.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: Past and ongoing. We have loved His appearing, even though we haven’t seen it happen.
Nikki: Um-hmm.
Colleen: It continues to be something we love and long for.
Nikki: Yes! We long for home.
Colleen: Yeah.
Nikki: Yeah, it makes me think too of the – we call it “The Great Hall of Faith” in Hebrews.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: They could have gone back to these different situations they found themselves in before they followed God, and they didn’t. They had their mind and their heart set on something else that God had promised them. And you know, the other thing is we’re supposed to encourage one another with the details of the Lord’s return. That is new.
Colleen: That’s new. [Laughter.]
Nikki: You cannot do that with Chapter 40 of The Great Controversy worldview. [Laughter.]
Colleen: No! [Laughter.]
Nikki: You cannot encourage one another with that.
Colleen: No.
Nikki: You can warn, “Be careful, beware, watch out!”
Colleen: And instill with fear.
Nikki: Yeah, but there’s no encouragement there. It’s such a scary scene. We can see that in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. You can put that in your notes or look that up. And also, we have confidence of citizenship at His return.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: That’s understanding that our position is secured.
Colleen: Exactly. And it’s written by Paul in the Roman world, where Rome dominated the world, and people were not automatically citizens of Rome because they were under Rome’s authority. Paul was born a Roman citizen, and it was a very big deal. In the Book of Acts, we find out that his Roman citizenship actually altered how the Roman guards treated him and what privileges he was allowed to have. He was allowed to ask to go before Caesar. So when Paul says we’re citizens, that’s a very big deal that has a meaning a lot of us have forgotten. It’s an entitlement. It’s an entitlement to privilege.
Nikki: Um-hmm. In case any of you out there would say that Paul disagrees with all the other writers in the New Testament, like I heard as I was leaving Adventism, John writes about our citizenship as well. This is the passage that we’re going through at church right now. 1 John 2:28, where we’re told – and I read that a few minutes ago – that when we abide in Him, we have confidence, and we don’t shrink back in shame from Him at His coming, and our pastor talked about – it goes on to say the love that God lavished on us and that we are called children of God, and another new thing I learned through that sermon is in that cultural context that was a really big deal because you were not considered a child of anyone until the father said –
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: – “Yes, this is my child.” And our pastor talked about when he said that we’re to abide in Him, he talked about that word “abide,” and he said that word is “stay where you are in faith and understanding,” and the message of John is to not be deceived or seduced away by false teaching or the world. That’s what it is to abide in Him.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: It’s to remain faithful.
Colleen: If we know that our works will be judged but it is not a judgment for sin or salvation, what are we to do with Ellen White’s writings about the judgment, and what are we to do with the judgment of the wicked, and what are we to do with the texts that talk about judgment of the wicked, and when does that happen? I think that the most definitive chapter that talks about the judgment of the wicked is Revelation 20, and I know how much visceral reaction we who have been Adventist have to the Book of Revelation, but Revelation 20 presents a picture that’s very different from what we learned Revelation said. So let’s just go there and look at some texts. I think it’s significant, Nikki, when you read Chapter 40 of The Great Controversy, that Ellen White talked about gathering at the great white throne.
Nikki: Yeah.
Colleen: And I don’t want to be gathering at the great white throne –
Nikki: [Laughter.]
Colleen: – in the sense that most people think of that. According to Revelation, the great white throne judgment happens at a particular time, and let’s look at that. It’s interesting because it’s very, very clear, the timing is very clear. The chapter begins with an angel binding Satan and throwing him into the abyss, and let me just say, Adventists taught us, Ellen White said, that throwing Satan into the abyss is chaining him on an empty earth while the saved are in heaven learning why God didn’t bring everybody and wiping away our tears and answering all our questions and that Satan is bound on an empty earth, and he’s considered bound because there’s no one to tempt. That is not in the Bible. So this chapter begins with Satan being bound in abyss, and it’s interesting that the abyss is the same place that the demons that Jesus cast out of the Gadarene demoniac begged Him not to send them into the abyss, but instead to allow them to enter those pigs, and He did allow them to enter those pigs, and the demons drove them off the cliff. But the abyss is the same abyss here that Satan is bound, and it is a place that’s not the earth. We don’t know exactly what it is or where it is, but it’s not the earth. So this chapter begins with that, and then it’s interesting that in verse 4 we learn about the first resurrection, and 4-6 actually describes the first resurrection. “Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.” We’re not going to completely unpack this passage, but this is what I want us to notice: The righteous dead come to life and reign with Christ on earth for a thousand years. What that looks like, what that means is not completely explained, but it says that this is what happens. But it’s clear that there’s a second resurrection later. Let’s go later in the chapter and see what it says about that. The next four verses explain what goes on at the end of the millennium, and then in verse 11 we come to the great white Throne. “Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.” Peter talks about the heavens being rolled up, the elements melting with fervent heat. The Bible is clear that the day is coming at the end of all things when this will happen, and the great white throne judgment occurs then. “And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne.” Now remember, the righteous dead have already been resurrected and have been reigning with Christ. Now he sees the other dead that don’t come to life until later. “The books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” There are a lot of details here that we’re not going to try to unpack. What we are trying to say is notice that this chapter is very clear that there are two resurrections, one of righteous dead who reign with Christ for a thousand years, and at the end of the thousand years, the wicked are resurrected, and they’re resurrected for judgment. The righteous are resurrected for life, as Jesus said in John 5. And we see that in the first part of this chapter. They’re resurrected to reign with Him. And the second death can’t touch them. But the wicked are resurrected for judgment, and they will be thrown into the lake of fire, which was intended for Satan and his angels. The great white throne judgment is only a judgment for the wicked who have not believed in the Son of God, who took their sins and nailed them to the cross. Those of us who have believed do not face the great white throne judgment. And when we read Ellen White saying that she’s calling on people to meet her at the great white throne, I just want to say: Oh, my goodness. I do not want to meet anyone at the great white throne judgment.
Nikki: It’s horrifying.
Colleen: It is.
Nikki: We’re going to see our loved ones there who didn’t put their faith in Christ alone.
Colleen: I know.
Nikki: And you know, it’s not just about – we talk about how all you have to do is believe, but if you don’t understand what’s behind all of those words, 1 Corinthians 15 says that it’s according to Scripture.
Colleen: Yes.
Nikki: It can’t be according to your tradition. It can’t be according to a prophet.
Colleen: No.
Nikki: It has to be according to Scripture –
Colleen: Right.
Nikki: – or you believe in vain.
Colleen: That’s right. It’s not about what we know, it’s about trusting Jesus. And if we turn away when we hear the gospel, we will ultimately be judged for that. And if we are alive, if we trust Him, we have nothing to fear, even if our works are burned up, we still know Him, and He will save us for eternity. But if we turn away, we do face the great white throne judgment.
Nikki: And you guys, the purpose of this podcast is not to bash.
Colleen: No.
Nikki: It’s to plead with you to know the Word of God and to trust the Word of God alone because there’s a lot at stake here. This is life and death.
Colleen: For eternity. There’s a lot more that we could unpack about judgment, but in closing, I just want to reiterate, if you have not placed your faith in the Lord Jesus, in the finished work of His life and His death for sin according to Scripture, His burial, and His resurrection from the dead three days later according to Scripture, if you have not done that, if you have not repented and acknowledged that you need a Savior and trusted Jesus to be the propitiation for your sin, we urge you to do that, because we really want to see you in eternity as a fellow brother or sister, son of God, daughter of God, part of the body of Christ and not facing the terror of the great white throne judgment. And nobody will be at the great white throne and wonder why. When they see Jesus there, they will know why, and we want you to know Him and Him to know you. If you have questions or comments, please feel free to write to us at formeradventist@gmail.com. To subscribe to our weekly email or to Proclamation! magazine, go to proclamationmagazine.com. You may also follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Please like us and give us a review. We will see you again next week. Bye.
Nikki: Bye. †
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